Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

[Grays_1890]

Iirc Dein was actually on the board of the FA during that period wasn't he? Which was probably no small part of the reason why our game wasn't delayed

TBF they are also different timelines in their stewardship. I was one of only 50 people allowed a the Palace game operationally (including players and match day staff) mid covid, the game which was a threat of being called off because Palace tried to claim they had more cases of Covid than they actually did. I saw first hand the power Levy now wields in the game and it was that power that saw the game take place. My point is, had Lasagnegate taken place 10 years later the outcome would have been different IMO

 

[DubSpur]

I wasn't comparing them in terms of ability but comparing the decisions made by Dein, Edwards and Levy. Football men versus the business man.

If you want to deflect from the decisions Levy made cool, it's just demonstrates the imbalance of the analysis of Levy.

No, it just demonstrates that you want to try and make everything fit into your argument when what was mentioned was nothing to do with Levy.

I doubt many would see Scholar as a great football chairman but he had an agreement with Ferguson to become our manager only for Fergie to back out of it. If Fergie had signed would that make him a great football chairman?

If you want it about Levy, he was right to sack Poch (others will disagree but that's fine and it's been done to death), but then messed up hiring Mourinho and Conte. Since then he seems to have learned and put proper structures in place and hopefully that continues. Balanced enough for you or do you want to try and twist that?

 

[Bishop]

No, it just demonstrates that you want to try and make everything fit into your argument when what was mentioned was nothing to do with Levy.

I doubt many would see Scholar as a great football chairman but he had an agreement with Ferguson to become our manager only for Fergie to back out of it. If Fergie had signed would that make him a great football chairman?

If you want it about Levy, he was right to sack Poch (others will disagree but that's fine and it's been done to death), but then messed up hiring Mourinho and Conte. Since then he seems to have learned and put proper structures in place and hopefully that continues. Balanced enough for you or do you want to try and twist that?

Broski, literally my post was about the poor decision making of Levy Vis a Vis Edwards and Dein. You responded by talking about how poor Poch has been post Spurs. What did that have to do with the meat of my post? Precisely nothing.

You responded the way you did because for you it makes sense to deflect from the actual topic at hand which was again I'll repeat, Levy's decision making. Talking about anything but his decision making in relation to my post is pure deflection.

Now that you are actually talking about the subject at hand, if you read my post rather than being immediately on the defensive (and not reading) you will see I said more or less the same thing re the sacking of Poch and his replacements.

If you hadn't tried to twist the conversation the first away from the actual topic in hand (Levy's decision making) I wouldn't have called you teflon.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Fergie was reportedly very close to being sacked in 1990. If he had lost to Oldham in the semi final of the FA cup he was gone but Mark Robins scored late in injury time to win it. Luck plays it's part in football and Utd got lucky that day.

And it's a laugh to talk about Poch in the same sentence as Wenger, never mind Ferguson. He's done nothing since leaving us and didn't manage to get us over the line either.

Not a laugh to talk about him as being our best manager since ENIC took over though. Still got him sacked.

 

[Finney Is Back]

@Grays_1890 see what I'm saying about Teflon?

But Fergie wasn't sacked was he? All the speculation and rumours in the world don't change the fact it didn't happen. When push came to shove and a decision could be made Edwards the football made the right decision.

With regards to Poch I'm not even claiming he shouldn't have been sacked, the issue is who he replaced him with. Jose at that point was a used flush it was so obvious. To the extent people on our fan base were arguing that what he needed to restart the fire was a lower level club than he was used to like us.

Again the point is the football man that Levy is couldn't see after his last disaster season at Chelsea and really his entire United spell that no this was not the man for us. Tactically he didn't suit the squad we had, character wise our players didn't suit him either. So rather than getting a coach of a similar mindset and tactical setup as Poch to reinvigorate the existing squad and continue the system we already had Levy couldn't see this and went for a polar opposite probably not realising how unsuited we were as a pairing. It was an awful decision on his part and one a football man would not have made and that's the point.

Having Steve Hitchen as your head of recruitment is a bigger crime than even sacking Poch and/or replacing him with Mourinho. Is there serious club in the PL where this would happen?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I didn't mention any decision that Levy made, I mentioned that Utd were lucky in that Fergie came very close to being sacked. One game was the difference. In football at times there are very close margins and luck one way or the other can influence things. Wtf has that got to do with Levy?

You were comparing Poch to Fergie and Wenger, which is laughable. Wtf has that got to do with Levy?

Levy would’ve sacked him well before that game I reckon.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I didn't mention any decision that Levy made, I mentioned that Utd were lucky in that Fergie came very close to being sacked. One game was the difference. In football at times there are very close margins and luck one way or the other can influence things. Wtf has that got to do with Levy?

You were comparing Poch to Fergie and Wenger, which is laughable. Wtf has that got to do with Levy?

The best manager each respective team has had since the start of the PL era?

 

[Finney Is Back]

TBF they are also different timelines in their stewardship. I was one of only 50 people allowed a the Palace game operationally (including players and match day staff) mid covid, the game which was a threat of being called off because Palace tried to claim they had more cases of Covid than they actually did. I saw first hand the power Levy now wields in the game and it was that power that saw the game take place. My point is, had Lasagnegate taken place 10 years later the outcome would have been different IMO

Not convinced. Look at the way we exited the Europa Conference league just a few years ago.

Look also at how Arsenal successfully managed to call off their game with us due to having injuries, suspensions and ANC call ups.

Look also at the ridiculous ban Dele got at the end of the season when Leicester won the PL. That would never have happened to the big clubs.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not convinced. Look at the way we exited the Europa Conference league just a few years ago.

I was there when he read the riot act to the PL and basically made them switch a postponement of a game into putting the game on, so maybe its every moment in its place.

I would have to dig it out but there was a comment from another chairman/exec recently which said Levy's influence with the PL and his negotiating was something all clubs leant on and he was the unofficial spokesperson within that circle.

Maybe like most things, no two situations are the same and the truth is somewhere in the middle

 

[Finney Is Back]

No, it just demonstrates that you want to try and make everything fit into your argument when what was mentioned was nothing to do with Levy.

I doubt many would see Scholar as a great football chairman but he had an agreement with Ferguson to become our manager only for Fergie to back out of it. If Fergie had signed would that make him a great football chairman?

If you want it about Levy, he was right to sack Poch (others will disagree but that's fine and it's been done to death), but then messed up hiring Mourinho and Conte. Since then he seems to have learned and put proper structures in place and hopefully that continues. Balanced enough for you or do you want to try and twist that?

Time will tell on the bolded point. Way too early to know. We’re only 18 months’ or so on from Conte, Stellini, Mason….

 

[Lemonade Money]

Or you can spin it and say, without Levy, we would never of had 4 great years with Poch.

 

[Bishop]

Or you can spin it and say, without Levy, we would never of had 4 great years with Poch.

He gets the credit for the 4 good years along with the scorn for how it ended and what followed.

That is a truful balance, no need to try to overly protect the teflon don.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Or you can spin it and say, without Levy, we would never of had 4 great years with Poch.

Or you could spin it and say without Poch the overspend on the stadium might’ve bankrupted Spurs….

(Remember also who the clubs number 1 choice was that summer)

 

[parklane1]

He gets the credit for the 4 good years along with the scorn for how it ended and what followed.

That is a truful balance, no need to try to overly protect the teflon don.

Could not agree more with that and you are right of course, just as its wrong imo for all the woes that happen too our club to be blamed on Levy like some do. As you say there has to be balance.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Could not agree more with that and you are right of course, just as its wrong imo for all the woes that happen too our club to be blamed on Levy like some do. As you say there has to be balance.

He absolutely should get the credit for what is/was right at the club as well as what is/was wrong.

I suspect the real villain in many cases is actually Lewis, with him not wanting to dilute his stake for the club to get a significant liquidity injection and not prepared to ‘gamble’ the asset value on really pushing to win things.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Having Steve Hitchen as your head of recruitment is a bigger crime than even sacking Poch and/or replacing him with Mourinho. Is there serious club in the PL where this would happen?

Man United?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He gets the credit for the 4 good years along with the scorn for how it ended and what followed.

That is a truful balance, no need to try to overly protect the teflon don.

Id actually give Poch the majority of the credit for that 4 year period.
Yes, DL was off doing good work on all things stadium BUT Poch navigated us on the pitch and had to very much cut his cloth accordingly.

Poch was a godsend. It's ironic we had our best recent period during the eye of the stadium build, you'd usually expect that to be difficult times. Helped massively with the finances too.

It did feel like we parted ways at the right time though (not just results but Poch looked broken/exhausted), I'd have given him the rest of the season tbh.

 

[parklane1]

He absolutely should get the credit for what is/was right at the club as well as what is/was wrong.

I suspect the real villain in many cases is actually Lewis, with him not wanting to dilute his stake for the club to get a significant liquidity injection and not prepared to ‘gamble’ the asset value on really pushing to win things.

You may have a point about the amount of blame/credit some of it being down to Lewis, to be honest though none [or not many anyway] of us fans will ever really know. Of course Levy has made mistakes but i doubt there is anyone anywhere who has not made some mistakes in their life.

I have criticised Levy over the year for some of his decisions but there is a SMALL fraction of fans who really believe that all the woes that we have suffered as a club over the years is down to him, that is not the case imo.

 

[harr1984]

Jeez, there are certain debates on this forum that will just never fizzle out will they If we were to go back on here say 3 years to the Levy or Poch debates, I wonder if anything new has actually been added to the equation since then....

 

[Muttley]

Why would I criticise Harry? He said at the time he was not involved in the player negotiations. He told Levy who he wanted and didn't want and left him to it.

And honestly fudge all of that. If you watched that team in 09/10 we had one priority one. Next season we needed a striker. that should have been the first incoming and hell only incoming if needed. My beef is that Levy either couldn't see that, or just wasn't bothered about the team progressing on to the next level. What exactly was the pint of qualifying for the CL again?

People always hate knocking Harry but he wasn't good for a lot of the clubs he managed. Always blaming his chairmen even though they gave him the earth. He left many with financial strife, and he also left us in an absolute mess. He has some of the slopiest shoulders in football.

Ultimately he joined us in 2008 and we hadn't rationalised his squad down to 22/23 senior pro's plus U21's in the time you're talking about, 2 years later. It has just proliferated. We never made the transition to having a football philosophy and sticking to accepting only players that fit it. Harry would just accept any available player, any age and always had his little public narratives where he subtly blamed others. We were completely hamstrung in getting players in because Harry was carrying 35 players. Levy was being stubborn as well because he just wouldn't accept lower prices for players to get the churn going we needed.

Levy and Harry also put too much trust in guys like Pleat and Sherwood. The old boys network. Levy should have backed Hoddle who kicked Sherwood out of our club a few years earlier. He shouldn't have been allowed back in but once again his niceness and naivety kicked in allowing Harry to have his mate around him. We had to learn the hard way the second time with that toxic character.

It's a great case study to see how badly football operations was run in the past. Alternatively, we can perhaps see how well it is now being run now that we have the right people in the right boxes.