Could be. The two things that make me doubt it though are a) our spending this summer (i.e. once the stadium had been completed), incl. splashing out on Mourinho, and b) our spending before the new stadium was announced in October 2008 (a net spend of £18m per season under Levy, which is pretty high for that period). Our lack of spending has coincided entirely with the stadium being developed, and now that's done I think we'll see Levy continue to loosen the purse strings - as he did before, and as he has already started to do again.
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Daniel Levy - Chairman
- Thread starter Howard Webb
- Start date
Could be. The two things that make me doubt it though are a) our spending this summer (i.e. once the stadium had been completed), incl. splashing out on Mourinho, and b) our spending before the new stadium was announced in October 2008 (a net spend of £18m per season under Levy, which is pretty high for that period). Our lack of spending has coincided entirely with the stadium being developed, and now that's done I think we'll see Levy continue to loosen the purse strings - as he did before, and as he has already started to do again.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
If Levy had any intention of selling, why would he bother with the detail and quality in the stadium build, down to the nth degree? And we just had a £72m net spend transfer window.
The club under Enics ownership has generally broken even overall as a business - before workson the stadium begun this translated to a higher net spend in the transfer market - so therefore I would expect to see our transfer spending rise with the increase in revenue that the stadium move will bring
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parklane1
Tony Galvin
Simple answer is he would not.
Or another way to look at the data: taking Emirates Marketing Project and their oil money out of the equation, and then just looking at the revenue of the richest 5 clubs in order (recognising that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th richest clubs were in a different order between 03/04 and 17/18):
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
There are several factors to consider when judging the increases in revenue in addition to Levy's acumen ( which I am not disputing). Certainly I think it would be a misrepresentation to put the increase in revenue all down to Levy.
1) the television revenue has gone up dramatically the management of that has been down to Levy; 2) The prize money we received was greater because of our high PL fonishes, down to Poch's skill at managing the football side; 3) our Champions League participation at the expense of Arsenal. Again down to Poch's football acumen; 4) a year at Wembley with increased gate receipts compared to WHL brought in more income. Levy's business planning. 5) participation in the Champions League has improved our brand. Down to both Levy and Poch.
These figures, in themselves, only show an increase in revenue but do not show how that has been brought about. There are only 2 data points but it would not be unreasonable to conclude that the increase in revenue has been brought about by a combination of Poch football achievements as well as Levy's business skills.
Agreed - it wasn’t my intention to post that as a Levy vs Poch thing.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
I am not saying it was. But there was an implication, whether intentional or not, that the increase in revenue was solely down to Levy and Enic.
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You could also say that our improvement on the pitch is a result of years of continually upgrading our squad, in large part thanks to our increasing revenue and reputation since ENIC and Levy came in and being clever about how we spend our money.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
You could say that. But I think that would be wide of the mark if you look at the net spend and wages paid and if you believe, as I do, the squad Harry had at his disposal was better than Poch's. We have lost world class players such as Modric, Bale and VDV without replacing them with players of an equivalent level. We then did the same with Dembele. It was Poch's acumen that made this squad punch above it's weight.
Mate, no offense but point by point
- they are basically treating the club as a giant piggy bank = unsubstantiated, show me in the accounts where ENIC is taking money out of the club (United and Scum do btw)
- one they will eventually break open and walk away with the contents of in their back pockets = unsubstantiated again, the 19 year quick flip project narrative is still going I see
- they will carry on spending the minimum they can get away with on playing staff without jeopardising their main objective = what is their main objective? is it the "quick flip" or is it "piggy bank" they haven't used in 19 years?
- I reckon the clock is now ticking on a sale, though. = 19 years later the clock is ticking? do you really believe this stuff?
Let play an alternative version for you
- Levy and ENIC do see the club as an investment (they actually planned to own multiple clubs in Europe initially), but they neither intend to do a quick flip or drain the club of resources
- What you and the media play as Levy/ENIC not wanting to spend is dishonest, first it completely ignores the spend in training facilities, train station, stadium and Tottenham area in general. As many others have pointed out, if they wanted to make a profit they could have built the stadium at half or a third of the cost. Second the principle is keeping our wages/players costs in line with "safe" spend and not banking on CL money to keep the club out of fiscal trouble. You can choose to disagree with that approach but that is simply a difference of opinion on acceptable risk, not them being cheap or milking the club.
Let me play out what Levy is trying to
- American NFL is the one sport that dwarfs PL in terms of money, both in terms of revenue and sponsorship. If he can combine both (perhaps initially where we co-use WHL) or even own both (buy a franchise), the naming rights, sponsorship, commercial opportunities would put us above United and Madrid and then we could pay anyone, anything we want.
It is an amazing strategy and one unique in the world of sports (that I know of) and done without shady money or deals, something Spurs fans should be proud of if/when it comes to fruition.
Instead we support this flimflam narrative against our own club with absolutely nothing to back it up other than well 5 clubs spend more money than us ...
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
ENIC are an investment vehicle right? Everything they have done is to maximize their investment right? Nothing wrong with that imo. But they are making decisions that protect their investment short and long-term. That was their starting point and is their endgame too. They will sell the club when the time is right i.e. when they have maximised their investment return. They are not running the club for altruistic reasons. The likes of Abramovich sheikh khaldoon, Jack Walker have invested millions of their own funds into their clubs rightly or wrongly. I am not expecting Joe Lewis to do the same any time soon
Now, it is likely their financial acumen will secure the club's future which is great. However, at times they have made decisions that are not necessarily in the best interests of our competitiveness on the football pitch. You can see why purist football fans might question them. I can understand the respect we have built up for them, rightly so, but for me there is never the same emotional attachment as there is with the team or manager. I find fans creaming themselves over revenue slightly strange. Perhaps it's my age.
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Ok. As I said that wasn’t my intention.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
None at all taken.
Forgive me if I don't respond blow-by-blow, but @Robspur12 has already made most of my points for me.
I never suggested (and wouldn't dream of doing) that ENIC were looking for a quick anything. They've been in this for the long haul, for sure, but they are an investment company (primarily interested in real estate, from what I understand) and my piggy bank analogy was only meant to represent the accumulating value of their investment (the ultimate sale value of the club), not anything else. They've sought to maximise that at every turn, and that's how I view their investment in the stadium and all the other infrastructure. I make no judgment about that (not publicly, anyway), other than to say they're entitled to manage their investment however they like within the law. All I was doing was saying what I expect to see happen (the club being sold for a huge sum, probably within the next couple of years, probably to an American buyer) and what I don't (significant change in the approach to player trading in the meantime).
I'd have been amazed if they'd bailed out before the infrastructure investments had borne fruit, tbh, but 19 years is just one short of 20, and that kind of sounds like rather a nice round figure, give or take.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
Great post. Well done that man!
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
I think this comes down to a difference in expectation and what people may consider to be admirable or normal and where I find some fans comments slightly strange.
Let us be totally clear here and reiterate that 'their build' of the stadium, the train station, the training facilities has, as far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong), come completely from club money. I'm not criticising this or saying that I'd wish they'd put in (though personally I wish they had). But they haven't built these things from their own money or through the kindness of their hearts. We're currently sitting on over £600 million worth of debt, having already spent (if I remember correctly), over £400 million as a club on infrastructure projects.
I appreciate the excellent job they've done to oversee these projects. I love the stadium. But, as Robspur said, I find it incredibly strange that we have fans creaming themselves over accounts and over stuff like infrastructure, as if ENIC have funded it themselves. They have not. We'll be paying it off for years to come still.
If/when they do decide to sell, they will be making a humungous profit, regardless of whether they'd spent £1 billion on the stadium or not spent on the stadium at all. They bought the club for what...£40 million? I can't recall them putting their money in over the time they've had us. So they will be making a very very tidy profit whenever they do sell up.
Why this is so offensive to say for some I'm not really sure.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
I think it is a slightly misleading graph because it simply compares relative to the financial behemoth that is Man Utd.
If we look at absolute differences in the revenue from 2004 to 2010 to 2018 (I tried finding the deloitte records for the 2001/2002 season but couldn't find them unfortunately, beyond the top 10 in Europe, which we weren't in).
Arsenal 67—103—10
Liverpool 77—65—75
Chelsea 115—90—70
Man Utd 140—166—210
I haven't included Emirates Marketing Project cos they're dirty twunts and it would be pointless.
But we have essentially closed the gap completely to Arsenal, slowly and gradually decreased it to Chelsea, stayed pretty much consistent with Liverpool and fallen even further behind Man Utd. Interestingly, considering I've seen Spurs fans bemoan the TV deals and waiting fro them to crash...we're the most reliant on broadcasting deals for our revenues currently, though I hope we get some much improved matchday numbers and also commercial, which is where we lag behind.
I feel like I'm being forced to take a position that I don't really like, where it appears I'm just attacking Levy and ENIC. I really do think they've done a great job overall and I'm very thankful for them.
But being grateful to them in the way that some are is, for me, akin to being grateful to your mortgage lender for your house. Yes they've lent you £300k to buy the house and its great. You have a lovely house now! But...they're not doing you a favour. That money is all you and you'll be paying back £400k in the end. So I appreciate them for a job well done. But I'm not ecstatic for their lending, they've not given me the house or any money to actually spend.
Baleforce
Les Bennett
that they haven't had to pump money in it's what brilliant about it, we are not relying on anyone's charity, if ENIC get bored they can sell it for whatever they deem fair and walk away with more than their purchase price, but the club will be in excellent health and there is no reason why anything would need to change
to steal the old expression, city and chelsea are being handed fish, ENIC showed us how to make a net
quick edit to respond to @Hootnow
we don't expect them to do us a favour, it's merely that our interests are aligned, the relationship is symbiotic
to steal the old expression, city and chelsea are being handed fish, ENIC showed us how to make a net
quick edit to respond to @Hootnow
we don't expect them to do us a favour, it's merely that our interests are aligned, the relationship is symbiotic
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Their success on the football pitch is building their own net. As is shown by their financials.