• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Daniel Levy - Chairman

galeforce said:
I disagree, I think Poch had us punching at the weight Levy made possible.
Click to expand...

We'll see. There is nothing about having the 6th highest turnover and 6th highest wage bill that suggests that we should be punching at 2nd-4th for 4 seasons in a row.

I hope this is our new baseline. But the fact is Levy and ENIC has been here for 19 years and 4 out of the 6 times we've finished in the CL spots (and 4 of the 5 times we've reached the CL) have been under Poch. He has done this while under (relatively) the biggest period of austerity in ENIC's reign. Similarly, we have been to 5 finals in their 19 years (I'm counting the 2001/2002 season as well) and two of those have been in the 5 years of Poch.

I've said on here before I think overall they've done a great job and there aren't too many other chairmen I'd want but the reverence in which they're held by some on this board, where they're essentially faultless, I find utterly baffling.

Let's give it a few more years before claiming Poch was just achieving at par shall we?
 
Hootnow said:
We'll see. There is nothing about having the 6th highest turnover and 6th highest wage bill that suggests that we should be punching at 2nd-4th for 4 seasons in a row.

I hope this is our new baseline. But the fact is Levy and ENIC has been here for 19 years and 4 out of the 6 times we've finished in the CL spots (and 4 of the 5 times we've reached the CL) have been under Poch. He has done this while under (relatively) the biggest period of austerity in ENIC's reign. Similarly, we have been to 5 finals in their 19 years (I'm counting the 2001/2002 season as well) and two of those have been in the 5 years of Poch.

I've said on here before I think overall they've done a great job and there aren't too many other chairmen I'd want but the reverence in which they're held by some on this board, where they're essentially faultless, I find utterly baffling.

Let's give it a few more years before claiming Poch was just achieving at par shall we?
Click to expand...

Not saying i disagree with you post overall but as for the bolded bit i could say the opposite, i sometimes feel baffled by some on this board who never stop moaning about how Levy is not doing the right thing and how he can be seen holding us back at times.
 
Hootnow said:
We'll see. There is nothing about having the 6th highest turnover and 6th highest wage bill that suggests that we should be punching at 2nd-4th for 4 seasons in a row.

I hope this is our new baseline. But the fact is Levy and ENIC has been here for 19 years and 4 out of the 6 times we've finished in the CL spots (and 4 of the 5 times we've reached the CL) have been under Poch. He has done this while under (relatively) the biggest period of austerity in ENIC's reign. Similarly, we have been to 5 finals in their 19 years (I'm counting the 2001/2002 season as well) and two of those have been in the 5 years of Poch.

I've said on here before I think overall they've done a great job and there aren't too many other chairmen I'd want but the reverence in which they're held by some on this board, where they're essentially faultless, I find utterly baffling.

Let's give it a few more years before claiming Poch was just achieving at par shall we?
Click to expand...
@Finney Is Back also made the point that there is no other manager in the top European Leagues who has done what Poch has done. I think Enic got lucky with him tbh and it’s sad the way they have just tossed him away. I really like Jose, never really worried about how he behaves with the press, however he has to go some to achieve what Poch did. He knows that.
 
Hootnow said:
We'll see. There is nothing about having the 6th highest turnover and 6th highest wage bill that suggests that we should be punching at 2nd-4th for 4 seasons in a row.

I hope this is our new baseline. But the fact is Levy and ENIC has been here for 19 years and 4 out of the 6 times we've finished in the CL spots (and 4 of the 5 times we've reached the CL) have been under Poch. He has done this while under (relatively) the biggest period of austerity in ENIC's reign. Similarly, we have been to 5 finals in their 19 years (I'm counting the 2001/2002 season as well) and two of those have been in the 5 years of Poch.

I've said on here before I think overall they've done a great job and there aren't too many other chairmen I'd want but the reverence in which they're held by some on this board, where they're essentially faultless, I find utterly baffling.

Let's give it a few more years before claiming Poch was just achieving at par shall we?
Click to expand...

I doubt many would seriously claim that they've been faultless. I think it's more a case that those who are minded to appreciate their efforts and achievements over the longer term will also be more minded to place their errors in the context of the bigger picture.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Unless your a paper creating column inches
The mail are adamant we wanted Brenton but it was too hard a deal to do.... if we wanted him he would be here, simple as as that. His contract is not mega and we would pay it off and he would come. And he would love the chance to manage a BIG club again a venue though everything* looks great currently at Leicester
Click to expand...
Brenton would have paid his contract off with his own offspring's flesh to work for us I suspect.
 
lol, the only discussion between Kraft and us is the contract agreement to get Kane over there as the Pats place kicker when he retires from the PL
 
Parklaner81 said:
I doubt many would seriously claim that they've been faultless. I think it's more a case that those who are minded to appreciate their efforts and achievements over the longer term will also be more minded to place their errors in the context of the bigger picture.
Click to expand...

It is probably the polarised nature of debate on the internet and some of it is probably slightly tongue in cheek.

I think it is perfectly possible to appreciate their efforts over the long term and their general accumen in the business arena (though I do feel that sometimes this is slightly overplayed), whilst being able to be critical of their mistakes in the football arena. The bit we actually support the club for....not the slightly weird obsession some of out fans have developed for accounts or training grounds.

Yes we are 10th in revenue in the world. But premier league clubs, including West Ham, make up 30% of the top 20 and it is in large part due to the huge communal broadcasting deals, which made up over half of our revenue last accounts.

I don't think many elite football clubs get by and win actual trophies always making solely business decisions. And there have been quite a few occasions when I think they could have twisted within the limits of the club's finances (without going for the hyperbolic scenario of Leeds that is often evoked) to try to really achieve something, rather than play it safe and stick.

I know some fans think Levy will change now with the new stadium and its income, that deals will be done earlier, that we won't be asking for extortionate prices to sell players, that he'll back the manager more at crunch moments. Especially with Mourinho here now. I hope beyond hope that this is true. I'll wait to see it though.

And I'll wait to see it while still believing that they have overall done a great job for this club.

Anyway, this was all prompted by the claim that the manager who has achieved 80% of our CL campaigns, 40% of our cup finals, 100% of our top 3 finishes in 29% of the time ENIC have been in charge of the club was working at a level allowed by ENIC. Which I found a little strange.

To really be a bit of an ass about it, Poch has achieved 1 in 6 of the times the club in its entire history have finished in the top 3 in the top division.
 
parklane1 said:
Not saying i disagree with you post overall but as for the bolded bit i could say the opposite, i sometimes feel baffled by some on this board who never stop moaning about how Levy is not doing the right thing and how he can be seen holding us back at times.
Click to expand...

Yep that is definitely also true.

However, and I appreciate that I like everyone else am not free from my own biases, I see maybe 2-3 posters who make over the top and stupid comments about Levy and ENIC and many more who make very legitimate concerns known and are shouted down by people who repeat over and over again where we were when Levy took over, our finances, ask who else is better etc etc.

I've seen the argument that Poch is a manager who did an incredible job to get the club from 5th-6th to 2nd-4th but just wasn't quite adept at getting us to 1st, in all competitions. Perhaps the same is true for Levy and ENIC, though I obviously hope not. I hope we will see a change in our behaviour and the backing of the manager. We will see in the next few years though.
 
Hootnow said:
Yep that is definitely also true.

However, and I appreciate that I like everyone else am not free from my own biases, I see maybe 2-3 posters who make over the top and stupid comments about Levy and ENIC and many more who make very legitimate concerns known and are shouted down by people who repeat over and over again where we were when Levy took over, our finances, ask who else is better etc etc.

I've seen the argument that Poch is a manager who did an incredible job to get the club from 5th-6th to 2nd-4th but just wasn't quite adept at getting us to 1st, in all competitions. Perhaps the same is true for Levy and ENIC, though I obviously hope not. I hope we will see a change in our behaviour and the backing of the manager. We will see in the next few years though.
Click to expand...

I can't dance with most of that, we all know there are fans on both sides of any discussion are prone to go over the top with their praise/criticism its what fans do. Poch has done a great job of course he has, but i never thought he would get Ist place ( and to be honest i have not met many at games who thought he would). He may have done eventually when the income from the new stadium really starts to roll in but even then it would take longer then we think/hope.

Whether we like it or not the game it todays world is all about money ( how much we can spend and how much we can play the players) and sometimes i feel that there are fans who either do not appreciate this or do not have the patience/will to accept it. Levy has given us a chance to finally play with the big boys ( both on and off the pitch) and if fans could accept that when Levy first took over we were in all honesty a club that was going nowhere ( as much as i love my club we were at best also runs). Since then we have made so much progress but as with everything in life the closer you get to the top the harder it gets to progress further.

I understand why fans get frustrated ( i have been going to games for nearly 60 years) so i know that feeling without a doubt but some need to see where we were when Levy came in and where we are now ( imo). It has been a long haul but we are so close to where the dream of Levy ( and fans) want us to be and i despair when i see the same arguments about Levy being tight and holding us back somehow. But as we say Stop! Hammer time.
 
To understand the extend of Levy's work, you need to look at the history

- 20 years ago the top sides were United, Pool, Scum and Leeds
- We had missed out on years of top PL & CL revenue to invest in squad
- Our competitors (who were above us for most of the previous decade) were Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton
- there were several "historical sides" who were trying to re-establish themselves

Fast forward 20 years
- top sides are United, Pool, Scum with Leeds imploding and City and Chelsea joining via money doping on a level never seen before
- We have joined the top club and in that have passed all we were competing against
- A lot of the historical teams have faded into obscurity

The telling fact is we are the ONLY club to organically establish ourselves after having missed out on the initial PL & CL train. Whatever faults Levy has, that point alone should highlight the fact that with a pretty high degree of certainty, he chose the right path more often than not.
 
Finney Is Back said:
As I've said a couple of times we had the 5th biggest turnover in England when Levy took over and have the 6th biggest turnover now (although this year we may usurp Arsenal and be up to 5th again).
Click to expand...

Bit of a narrow and simplistic stat though isn't it?! See graph below - we've caught up a lot with the other top clubs in terms of revenue, despite a) not starting with CL money or oil money to invest like the rest of them, and b) also investing money in a brand new stadium (which will further increase revenue in the future).

upload_2019-11-25_13-8-35.png

(Data taken from Deloitte Football Money League. Y-axis is annual revenue generated by each team, as a percentage of Man U's.)

The reason Levy hasn't spent as much money on transfer fees and wages over the last 15 years is because the club hasn't had as much money to spend. But he's managed to put us in a position where we do now have almost as much money, and now that the stadium's been built he's starting to spend it.
 
Last edited:
I remain hopeful of being wrong, but my own expectation is that we will never really see the stadium revenues translate into the sort of investment we want to see in the football side while ENIC are in charge. That's because I believe they are basically treating the club as a giant piggy bank; one they will eventually break open and walk away with the contents of in their back pockets. It's anyone's guess what direction things will take after that, but I believe that in the meantime, they will carry on spending the minimum they can get away with on playing staff without jeopardising their main objective. That means Levy continuing to operate with one of the lowest wages/turnover ratios in the league, carrying on dragging every deal out for as long as he can see more "value" in it, and ultimately more familiar stories of discontent. We shall see. I reckon the clock is now ticking on a sale, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back