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Daniel Levy - Chairman

scaramanga said:
I'm not sure getting on with Levy is any kind of a prerequisite.

How do you think Levy felt about Poch's belief in auras and lemons? Or his mollycoddling of the precious little players?

Poch lasted well over a year into his own decline, despite having opinions that an intelligent pragmatist like Levy is unlikely to hold much truck with.
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I'm not talking about getting on with him on a personal level, though actually Levy and Poch do seem to have been very close in that regard.

I'm talking professionally. The example you used earlier about a general manager who wanted more resources is superbly on point here. You are Levy in this situation. Mourinho is the old GM who always wants more. Neither of you are particularly wrong (and in fact, you may just have different aims). But if you have a boss who wants to win big and thinks the way to do so is spending big (and imo, is mostly right in thinking so). And the other boss but his superior thinks in a different way and hasn't shown much inclination in almost 20 years to make the kind of aggressive deals the former likes....professionally that doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.

I know you of all people would disagree because you think its pointless but its a shame we're out of the league cup. Mourinho likes to win. The big trophies yes but I think he likes to win whatever. Would have been a good early opportunity to pick something up for him.

We'll see though.
 
scaramanga said:
If the only way Poch was going to be able to get us success is via spending a fudgeton of money, why the hell wouldn't we give it to one of those proven, give them money and they will win you stuff managers?
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Or you invest in a manager who has proven what he could do with less resources. You will never get success on the cheap, the greatest managers in English football, Ferguson, Clough spent big when they needed to.
 
Hootnow said:
I'm not talking about getting on with him on a personal level, though actually Levy and Poch do seem to have been very close in that regard.

I'm talking professionally. The example you used earlier about a general manager who wanted more resources is superbly on point here. You are Levy in this situation. Mourinho is the old GM who always wants more. Neither of you are particularly wrong (and in fact, you may just have different aims). But if you have a boss who wants to win big and thinks the way to do so is spending big (and imo, is mostly right in thinking so). And the other boss but his superior thinks in a different way and hasn't shown much inclination in almost 20 years to make the kind of aggressive deals the former likes....professionally that doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.

I know you of all people would disagree because you think its pointless but its a shame we're out of the league cup. Mourinho likes to win. The big trophies yes but I think he likes to win whatever. Would have been a good early opportunity to pick something up for him.

We'll see though.
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If the answer truly had been to bring in more staff (in my example it wasn't), then the task would have changed. There would be no need for the GM who was good at training up entry level staff, no need for the person who can make them all stretch that bit further. If I'm going to bring in a load of new staff then I might as well use a new GM that can work with HR and employ the best new staff, one who is used to working with better staff.
 
Robspur12 said:
Or you invest in a manager who has proven what he could do with less resources. You will never get success on the cheap, the greatest managers in English football, Ferguson, Clough spent big when they needed to.
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Going from 5th to 3rd/4th with not much in the way of resources is, IMO, very different to the challenge of going from 3rd (or 14th) to 1st with new, shiny resources. Excellence at one does not suggest ability at the other.

Part of Poch's failing, IMO, was his inability to transition from the plucky underdogs to a top team.
 
scaramanga said:
If the answer truly had been to bring in more staff (in my example it wasn't), then the task would have changed. There would be no need for the GM who was good at training up entry level staff, no need for the person who can make them all stretch that bit further. If I'm going to bring in a load of new staff then I might as well use a new GM that can work with HR and employ the best new staff, one who is used to working with better staff.
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We're still not employing the best staff though. We've still got the 6th biggest revenue in the league and, by dint of the power of the PL's finances, the 10th-15th biggest revenue in the world. I've never thought Mourinho was a cheque book manager, he showed at Porto and Inter that he can do it differently. But he is someone that has been used to working with the best new staff for a good 15 years now. Will be interesting to see how he copes mentally without.
 
scaramanga said:
If the answer truly had been to bring in more staff (in my example it wasn't), then the task would have changed. There would be no need for the GM who was good at training up entry level staff, no need for the person who can make them all stretch that bit further. If I'm going to bring in a load of new staff then I might as well use a new GM that can work with HR and employ the best new staff, one who is used to working with better staff.
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You're running two things together when it suits you and splitting them when it doesn't.
Poch never asked for more, he asked for new or better, not more.
You can't take entry level staff and train them to elite level as replacements in 18 months.
We did not have a structure in place for the development players to fit in over time and learn, establish themselves and replace the elite. By not strengthening over a period of time we never had the opportunity to promote the entry level staff.
 
glasgowspur said:
You're running two things together when it suits you and splitting them when it doesn't.
Poch never asked for more, he asked for new or better, not more.
You can't take entry level staff and train them to elite level as replacements in 18 months.
We did not have a structure in place for the development players to fit in over time and learn, establish themselves and replace the elite. By not strengthening over a period of time we never had the opportunity to promote the entry level staff.
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Yet he still had the second (third if you're a fool) best team in the country. If we were third or fourth then I could accept that a bit of a refresh is required to push on. Being 14th with 12 months of form that would relegate us is a full on collapse.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I still don't think this is Levy's nadir.

But Mou devastating the club and walking out when he's denied any transfer funds for two windows in a row?

That will be Levy's nadir.

Either he starts spending now, in which case, why the f*ck didn't you do it for Poch...or he's going to try being a cheapskate again, in which case, Mourinho will walk.

You want to be a cheapskate, you look for the randos of the world, like Eddie Howe. Good managers, be they Mourinho or Poch, won't take that.
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He might’ve been too cheapskate to buy out any of the randos?

In some ways Mourinho wa s the easiest appointment to make..... available, living in London and wanting a PL job.
 
scaramanga said:
If the only way Poch was going to be able to get us success is via spending a fudgeton of money, why the hell wouldn't we give it to one of those proven, give them money and they will win you stuff managers?
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That’s fine as long as we’re going to be giving the manager a fudge ton of money.
 
Raziel said:
The problem is people don't understand this equation

- Levy spends what he believes is the right risk/reward for the club based on our income
- Our income is pretty much 4X what it used to be, and that's not counting full new season in stadium.

So it's not about changing, it's about having more revenue to work with.

I also suspect Levy has a January signing or two locked already (Fernandes seems highly likely)
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4 times what it used to be when?
 
Raziel said:
- Jose is extremely pragmatic about football mate, go watch any of his analysis of how he setup or countered big teams to win games
- Jose is not a long term appointment, isn't meant to be. He's meant to come in, win a couple of trophies, get that monkey off our back while raising the profile of the club another notch.

And re United, Jose complained because United bought players he didn't want while not getting players he did (and the player he wanted interestingly were Toby and Dier, neither of which would have been huge money) and from every reliable source Poch got damn near every player that was identified at beginning of window for this season (Sessegnon, Lo Celso, N'dombele, Clarke).

Levy is the best chairman in the league, and you aren't the best by doing the same thing over and over.

Let's leave it as we will see, I was on this board for a decade listening to how the stadium was a ruse, and Levy was in for a quick buck. I've also heard how we will never pay a player more than a 100K, list goes on.
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Mourinho wanted Man Utd to part with over £50 million for Dier.... that worries me somewhat.
 
Watching CNN and BBC global news (not sports news) in Madrid Spain and Jose's appointment has been covered.

Completely different PR level already.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Mourinho wanted Man Utd to part with over £50 million for Dier.... that worries me somewhat.
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He does not care about what a player costs (as a coach he probably shouldn't anyway) so if he wants a player, he wants that player. Where I forsee the potential breakdown is when Jose demands a player and Levy wants to play silly beggars and haggles over the last 50k for the final 2 weeks of the window. Jose will not stand for that and to be frank maybe that is something we need in manager because Levy will gladly hamstring and handicap his managers bit yet demand the world.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Levy is the problem, he has always been the problem and he will remain so.

I don't mind that we can't buy at the top of the market, I'm absolutely fine with that. But really we should have been taking a leaf out of the Dortmund and Athletico book and really scouting the market and snapping up, up and comers that the scouting team had identified, those players that showed potential. We do it at times but far too often Levy is to hesitant to pull the trigger because he worries about the cost risk. That's what's ultimately done Poch in and all the previous managers/coaches under Levy.

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