parklane1
Tony Galvin
Je pense, donc je suis.
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Creationist v Evolution
- Thread starter We are Tottenham
- Start date
I think he detailed it better in Latin as it's a more expressive language.
My latin's pretty terrible, but my interpretation of "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I exist" makes most sense to me.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
So there is a bunch of people who believe a ball of gas just appeared and we all developed from that and there is a bunch of people that believe it all just appeared becuase a super being clicked metaphorical fingers.
Both are impossible to explain and both say something came from nothing which is in it self the paradox in explaining how all this happened.
I just think the ball of gas is a good way for Science types to feel there is an asnwer and the same with Creationism for the GHod types.
Ultimately you can believe in a Creator that wasn't created and in Evolution at the same time.
Evolution is a proven fact though, so denying that is just idiocy for me.
Both are impossible to explain and both say something came from nothing which is in it self the paradox in explaining how all this happened.
I just think the ball of gas is a good way for Science types to feel there is an asnwer and the same with Creationism for the GHod types.
Ultimately you can believe in a Creator that wasn't created and in Evolution at the same time.
Evolution is a proven fact though, so denying that is just idiocy for me.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Ah but where did the gas come from? And where did the being come from?
Did the super being have beans on toast for dinner one night and create the universe?
More beans mr taggert?
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Oh i don't have the answers.
Anyway the main issue on this thread.
If someone believed that GHod created the ball of gas and then we all evolved from there then Creationist v Evolutionist ends up being a draw?
NorwegianSpursFan
Neil Ruddock
We don't know who or what started it all, but for me, science makes alot more sence than religion. I don't reject the idea that some divine beeing may have started it all, I just see no evidence for it. What I do think though, is that religion has nothing to do with a possible "GHod". I don't care if it's the bible, koran or any other religious book, it's created by man to controll other men. I read somewhere that there is over 2000 recognised gods from different parts of the world, who am I to say witch one is the right one.
Papercut
Jermaine Jenas
I tried to explain Darwin's evolution to religion's (perhaps not all religion) micro-evolution to my 6 year old girl.
On a personal level, religion or not - I find it difficult to comprehend how 'chance' could account for a lot of things. Nature and the evolution system. The most perfect computer system - the brain - not only 2D thought but another level (dreams, etc).
The number of odds needed to make everything tick in tandem - it just seems too much for my mind to calculate, perhaps too much for the human mind to understand. Perhaps the same way we cannot comprehend a 5D, 6D or perhaps 10000000D??
Each to their own though; whatever makes you feel comfortable in your 'here' and 'thereafter'.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
That's the point though. We're only here to see it all ticking in tandem because it does all tick in tandem. That isn't coincidence. The only reason we exist is because in this 'bang' everything was in place for all those billions of chance events to align, so we can experience it. But in all other 'bangs' the conditions weren't right for us or beans on toast to exist.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
A world without beans on toast isn't fit to exist.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I agree about your last two sentences.
Your start is one of the currently unexplained phenomenons in science. Inserting GHod is just about a perfect "GHod of the gaps" argument. Just like people explained thunder and lightening with Thor back in the day. Historically this has been a perfectly terrible argument as science has continually progressed and made those gaps disappear.
A ball of matter appearing (one of the theories) can be understood through our current scientific models (look up a universe from nothing talk from Krauss on youtube). Though this of course does not explain it or prove the theory. A being with universe creating power snapping into existence before that seems both superfluous and way more complicated. A being like that "always existing" makes no more sense.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I don't have the intellectual power to really enter the argument without being pulled apart with counter arguments.
But
I believe the universe as whole (outside of earth) has existed for an infinite amount of time and has experienced many changes that science has know, has proven and changes that are not known and not proven, the fact we can only travel so far to discover is why I believe their are gaps in the stories.
I believe religion became part of the evolution of man, man became more intelligent in my book and as man developed the part of the brain that made people question why and what made people come up with ideas and the conclusion was "there must be a reason we are here" Thats developed into modern day religion where people can't and don't feel comfort without a feeling of purpose, people don't want to believe that when we die the lights just go off and I understand that, I don't knock that and everyone has a right to that view. Personally I don't share a view that there are any gods or have been, did Jesus exist, probably, was he the son of GHod? Most definitely not in my book.
But
I believe the universe as whole (outside of earth) has existed for an infinite amount of time and has experienced many changes that science has know, has proven and changes that are not known and not proven, the fact we can only travel so far to discover is why I believe their are gaps in the stories.
I believe religion became part of the evolution of man, man became more intelligent in my book and as man developed the part of the brain that made people question why and what made people come up with ideas and the conclusion was "there must be a reason we are here" Thats developed into modern day religion where people can't and don't feel comfort without a feeling of purpose, people don't want to believe that when we die the lights just go off and I understand that, I don't knock that and everyone has a right to that view. Personally I don't share a view that there are any gods or have been, did Jesus exist, probably, was he the son of GHod? Most definitely not in my book.
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
How can you possibly be looking at this thread ...
Some people believe football is a matter of life and death..
well I'm telling you..
its more important than that!
All this bloody philosophy...I'm off to the football......for now anyway..LOL
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Can we say the only logical explanation is that something existed before everything else which could create but wasn't created? Or which could could cause and wasn't caused?
Dr Rosenrosen
Ramon Vega
I'm no scientist, but a few thoughts:
Evolution doesn't describe the origin of the Earth or the universe. It relates to the development of life on Earth. And it doesn't say that something came from nothing, it says that today's creatures developed over time from others, going all the way back to replicating molecules (which are simple and small, but not nothing).
The "Big Bang Theory" does relate to the "origin" of the Earth and our universe. And it also doesn't say that something appeared out of nothing. It says that what exists now started in a very small, very dense state, which expanded into its current state. It doesn't purport to address what existed before that, or what lies outside our universe.
Creationism as I understand it attempts to describe both - the origin of the Earth and the universe, and also the origin of humans and other life on Earth.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
My default logical answer to what I cannot explain is "I don't know". That makes a lot more sense than pure speculation.
To say that what you present is the only logical explanation is to me deeply flawed. There are many (for me countless) possible logical explanations. Like I said one possible explanation is that the net energy of the universe as we see it is 0 and that the universe as we know it did in fact pop out of nothingness at the start of time as we know it. From there to "we are just a simulation in the computers of some alien race far exceeding ours in technical capability" there are a whole host of explanations.
Postulating a universe creating entity without any further evidence is the opposite of logical for me. It's comparable to postulating a GHod of fire that controls the unexplained fire when the logical answer of "we don't understand fire" would both be more logical, more honest and actually serve as a motivation to try to understand something we do not understand.
Spot on and a very useful clarification. I find the majority if people who argue for creationism do not understand these basic definitions of what evolution and the big bang theory actually claim to explain. Which tells one a lot about how seriously those arguments should be taken.
If Evolution is a proven fact why haven't there been findings of the remains of every iteration of all animals?
Because fossils that last for a long time are incredibly rare.
Even if we're just talking about animals with some kind of skeletal system, those remains don't just hang around forever. In fact, they almost never do and it requires some very rare combinations of circumstances to make them last.
Understand that but there seems to be so few remains found yet so many claims of how animals evolved without backup.
I'm not a creationist but I can't say I'm fully an evolutionist either.