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Coronavirus

scaramanga said:
How much value did all those 80 year old have to the economy?

I call flimflam.
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Say we agree that it was just old and economically useless folk who died - can we agree that due to the way the world reacted we had to impose a proper lockdown or no lockdown at all and the fact we did neither has effed us?

Meaning we can solely place this with Boris and Cummings et al in my opinion.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Say we agree that it was just old and economically useless folk who died - can we agree that due to the way the world reacted we had to impose a proper lockdown or no lockdown at all and the fact we did neither has effed us?

Meaning we can solely place this with Boris and Cummings et al in my opinion.
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I would say on the numbers you are right in terms of early lockdown

Problem is now the news that no lockdown may have worked if done correctly can't really be added into the argument. I would say 90% on those participating on this forum topic championed lockdown in strong terms, only have to go back on here to see that. One poster even suggested public opinion swayed it, so lockdown was the choice of the masses. So from that point yeh not going earlier didn't help and falls on Boris.

Personally I blame him for not being brave to take the Sweden view but then again that's but o trusting the public which Scandinavia can do, we have proven during lockdown our public can't be trusted
 
P.D. said:
Who are the others and what have they done about it?
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spain/Germany / Italy I trust more from Europe

this is from today:

Two more deaths were reported where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate but there was no positive test result.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Say we agree that it was just old and economically useless folk who died - can we agree that due to the way the world reacted we had to impose a proper lockdown or no lockdown at all and the fact we did neither has effed us?

Meaning we can solely place this with Boris and Cummings et al in my opinion.
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this mess 100 percent lies with those 2

Flip flopping around rather than strong leadership.

I say that as someone who whilst Not voting for them, Backed them when it started - its been mistake after mistake
 
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Legohamster said:
spain/Germany / Italy I trust more from Europe

this is from today:

Two more deaths were reported where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate but there was no positive test result.
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And what do you expect to happen here, PHE provide details of people who have tested positive for Covid and subsequently died.

If at a later date the coroner declares it was Covid but there was no positive test result when how should the numbers be applied?

There are 2 bodies producing numbers, you have PHE who give numbers of those who died that had tested positive and ONS who give numbers of those who died where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate.

If I was a betting man I'd wager the UK numbers are far closer to the truth than most other countries but we can never get an exact total e.g. I get Covid and am too ill to go to hospital but die of something else. Did I die of Covid or something related?

As I said earlier the way Spain calculates their figures is highly misrepresentative, you see reports now and again saying they've added up the results from the different local authorities which always add up to more than the official total.
 
Legohamster said:
Schools are also opened overseas.- allows people to head back to work - still looking for reasons not to open here.

Scaremongering means people are not going out - this is not just the media - a lot of Karen’s out there

WFH - not supporting businesses - London’s a ghost town

I’ll add another - no targeted support - people in arts/aviation among others ain’t going to be spending disposable income
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Re the bold bit I agree this is a huge problem. But I’ve just clicked on a Twitter notification and saw this message :
“Severe delays between Liverpool Street and Shenfield due to an earlier faulty train at Stratford”.
And I think to myself thank Ghod I can work from home and be finished and sit in the garden enjoying the evening rather than be crammed, sweltering on a packed train (or platform) not knowing when I’m going to get home. I’d happily forego the plus points of being in the office every day for the privilege of being able to wfh instead for the majority of the time and avoid the travel and save a couple of grand a year on fares.
It’s a sad fact but office working is never going to get back to where it was. And it won’t be because I prefer working from home it will be because there will be too many opportunities for companies to save money on real estate costs, which will be the true driver of the change.
 
Diamond Lights said:
So our excess death is 60K or so, and the government figures are now around 40K?

What on earth could have caused those extra 20,000 deaths in the UK during a global pandemic if not COVID eh? Maybe there's something else going around...
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Approx 150k deaths a year caused by dementia, heart related, blood pressure and respitory problems. That more than. 10,000 a month so maybe other causes were the cause but being contibuted to COVID stats?
 
milo said:
A long read but worth 15 minutes of your time

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293437927314333697
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Cheers. A good article and I’d agree with a lot of it especially the decade of stasis in the civil service, something Brexit only enhanced.

But I strongly believe organisations reflect their leadership. Boris wasn’t in power for long, but he was still the only person who could be said to be sailing the ship. If he did not attend early Cobra meetings on Covid because he had other priorities, or if his cabinet office didn’t function well, or if his government of ministers were limited in their ability (another factor imo) then that rests on Boris’ head.

That Johnson wrote a book about Churchill is ironic. In a time of crisis Churchill was a. Prepared - he’d seen hitlers threat from afar and took the threat more seriously than many others at the time. When Covid broke in the news around Christmas which national leaders scoffed and looked the other way?

B. Churchill worked his arse off day and night. Johnson doesn’t work weekends

C. Churchill acted quickly. Churchill knew Germany’s air power was impressive, and knew that we had to - with all urgency - build an airforce. And we did. Boris couldn’t get testing, track and trace or lockdown working properly! despite knowing these were crucial ingredients for British success.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Re the bold bit I agree this is a huge problem. But I’ve just clicked on a Twitter notification and saw this message :
“Severe delays between Liverpool Street and Shenfield due to an earlier faulty train at Stratford”.
And I think to myself thank Ghod I can work from home and be finished and sit in the garden enjoying the evening rather than be crammed, sweltering on a packed train (or platform) not knowing when I’m going to get home. I’d happily forego the plus points of being in the office every day for the privilege of being able to wfh instead for the majority of the time and avoid the travel and save a couple of grand a year on fares.
It’s a sad fact but office working is never going to get back to where it was. And it won’t be because I prefer working from home it will be because there will be too many opportunities for companies to save money on real estate costs, which will be the true driver of the change.
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I 100 percent agree with this word for word

so what do we do?

pressure the train companies to sort themselves out? Trainlines/road workers had a nice 3 month window to do a large chunk of work - why didn’t they use it?

will companies in London that still want office workers have a limit on how far you live from the office?
 
P.D. said:
And what do you expect to happen here, PHE provide details of people who have tested positive for Covid and subsequently died.

If at a later date the coroner declares it was Covid but there was no positive test result when how should the numbers be applied?

There are 2 bodies producing numbers, you have PHE who give numbers of those who died that had tested positive and ONS who give numbers of those who died where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate.

If I was a betting man I'd wager the UK numbers are far closer to the truth than most other countries but we can never get an exact total e.g. I get Covid and am too ill to go to hospital but die of something else. Did I die of Covid or something related?

As I said earlier the way Spain calculates their figures is highly misrepresentative, you see reports now and again saying they've added up the results from the different local authorities which always add up to more than the official total.
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I think the 28 day cut off is a better way to judge it for a number of reasons, but the main one is to try and get public confidence back, in a purely death point of view - what use is telling is someone died 100 days ago now?

I’m assuming here, but I would guess that if someone is in care for a long time they would be tested more than once which would reset the 28 days?

in an ideal world - we would be announcing complete details - age/what underlying conditions etc - but that’s not fair on the families.
 
Legohamster said:
I think the 28 day cut off is a better way to judge it for a number of reasons
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Like with many things, there isn't going to be a perfect way of doing it, and this new measurement like all others will produce anomaly cases. But something needed doing to address the UK's counting method - I've said for a long time that it was clear to me that we were significantly over-reporting relative to others, and given that such a large majority of casualties are elderly and infirm, there were always likely to be a large number of positive tests results where the cause of death was much more likely something else. This goes someway to addressing that issue.

Of course, it's no surprise that the government bashers don't like it.
 
Legohamster said:
I 100 percent agree with this word for word

so what do we do?

pressure the train companies to sort themselves out? Trainlines/road workers had a nice 3 month window to do a large chunk of work - why didn’t they use it?

will companies in London that still want office workers have a limit on how far you live from the office?
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They should have been exempt from the lockdown and social distancing?
 
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