Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Exactly, this for me, you cant place the unvaxed into a discriminative pool, would be like doing so to the millions who make bad choices with drugs, food, drink and lack of exercise.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Exactly, this for me, you cant place the unvaxed into a discriminative pool, would be like doing so to the millions who make bad choices with drugs, food, drink and lack of exercise.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
But again with every day that passes its becoming clearer that the % difference in transition between uinvaxxed and vaxxed is extremely minimal so the Vaccine is to protect yourself first and foremost so therefore should be a matter of choice. As I have said numerous times, I am vaxxed to protect me, if my neighbour isnt thats up to him and I wont be judging him for it. The fact the thing is turning us into a nation of near curtain twitchers who want to pass judgement on others is not something that sits well for me
This isn't about england. Doubt boris will bring in plan b. We opened up early and started boosters early to avoid this. It's europe (and wales and scotland) that are bringing this in. Theraputics are no good if there are no hospital beds or doctors available to administer them. If ambulances are full because they can't unload patients, what happens to someone who has a heart attack? Or stroke? Or gets involved in a car accident? Or is stabbed? They won't get treatment. Nobody will come. So the death rate for everything will go up. You might aswell break out the leaches.
So governments have a choice. Lockdown everyone. Massive damage to the economy. Or lockdown the unvaccinated (who will take up most of the beds). Many of whom will get vaccinated as soon as the rules are implemented? Netherlands has chosen the former. Austria the latter.
Nobody cares about how many cases there are. If they are mild or asymptomatic who gives a fudge? They care about hospitals being overrun. That is being done by the unvaccinated. If everyone was vaccinated the hospitals would have some strain but would be able to cope.
Also we're not talking about england. We are talking of austria, germany, france, singapore. Well funded healthcare systems.
johnola
Jermaine Jenas
Right I get you. I’ve not really seen any evidence that transmission is the same for newly exposed non vaccinated individuals cf those who already have antibodies either through a jab or having had covid.
It just doesn’t sound plausible to me, but where that is true I agree that this levels the playing field and we should be looking at covid testing once again.
We do a million tests a day. About 500,000 of them are the daily tests. About 6 times as much percapita as the netherlands, france or germany.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Then my original point remains, hospitals would be less under strain if the country was not so obese, but we dont rightly point fingers at these people either
Did you read the last line?
England is not bringing in vaccine passports. The amount of people in hospital in the uk is falling.
As for obese, if the hospitals do get overrun then they are on the list, with smokers for triage. They'll just get morphine, unless they are fairly young.
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ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Once this has passed or under control...to be consistent one would have to shine a similar light on brick food consumers, smokers etc in relation to burdening the NHS.
They do. You have a sugar tax and tax on cigarettes that goes to paying for treatment from the nhs.
Cigarettes is £5.26 + 16.5% of the retail value is tax on a box of 20.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Where is this notion that the unvaccinated are the ones overrunning hospitals?
When looking at these rolling England weekly reports (which cover 4 week rolling periods each time) it seems that most cases of COVID being admitted to hospital are fully vaccinated and most of those who die from covid are fully vaccinated: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports
Most recent report for week 45, covering weeks 41 to 44:
Total Cases admitted to hospital: 10,179. Of these:
- number who were unvaccinated: 3,313
- number who were fully vaccinated: 7,322
Total deaths (within 28 days of positive sample): 3,430. Of these:
- number who were unvaccinated: 587
- number who were fully vaccinated: 2,732
Total deaths (within 60 days of positive sample): 4,135. Of these:
- number who were unvaccinated: 703
- number who were fully vaccinated: 3,284
These are usually from tables 4 and 5 in those weekly reports.
Happy to see any counter data....
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I did but I live in the UK And so it's relevant to me and the point about people pointing fingers is still valid to the UK as it's still a live conversation happening daily
I was going by the article in the bmj that i posted a couple of pages back.
I've also said that england isn't going to use vaccine passports. We opened up early, so now everyone has been exposed and has some level of immunity. We also have boosters to top up on waning immunity (around 11 million now).
The problem is in europe.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/sage-expert-says-uks-very-22157453
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
See table 5 here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf
Seems to have been the last technical briefing on the variants of concern where they broke down deaths figures in such a way...
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
So do you agree that the notion that 'unvaccinated people are driving up covid hospital admissions' is not correct at least in England?
In england not any longer. Number of people in hospital with covid is falling.
Europe has 4 problems. The 3 week gap between vaccinations (rather than 3 months in the uk) gives less protection that wanes faster. They kept restrictions too long, so now with winter coming everyone in doors, low vit d they are seeing a massive peak. (Uk has had between 40-50k a day for 4 months now, they are getting all those numbers in one go). They have unvaccinated that have had no exposure so no immunity. They also are very slow at rolling out boosters.
It's a perfect storm at the worst time possible. They fudged up big time. Now they have to put in more restrictions or their health systems could buckle.
