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Coronavirus

Mikey10 said:
Problem with that approach is that hospitals in N Ireland are already treating Covid patients in hospital car parks - that off the back of a strict four week lockdown.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...nd-hospitals-only-the-beginning-39868694.html

It doesn’t take much to imagine the scenario across the UK if we ‘get on with life and...don’t give too much attention to the virus.’
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I hear what your saying and it would be tough on the elderly, but I think they should isolate and let the rest of us get on in life.
 
Top Trump said:
Its amazing that the talk always turns to killing your granny, but what if its your granny who is the one insisting to carry on with life and making those choices herself?
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My parents are long dead but my Irish father in law is 79 and he goes out all the time. He knows the risks but he wants to carry on living life.

He accepts the risks.
 
Top Trump said:
Of the game yes, not the man.

My Granny is dead, my Grandad is old enough to be a risk but lives each day as he did anyway because he knows a 75 year old man regardless of Covid life was worth living, it is his risk to take, not for me to tell him how to live. His views is what is another 5 years if those 5 years are locked away, I think he has a point and not just because he is my Grandad but because he knows to counter the risks he can stay in doors and we would do whats needed to respect that and keep him safe. As I say its choice.

The chocking granny talk is always chucked in to make someone seem like the devil incarnate so you can play that game if you like
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The choking death isn't a game, it's reality. Also your grandad wouldn't have had to stay locked up more than five months max (five years is a ridiculous statement) had the UK not had an incapable government or a population full of people like yourself who think they know better than the scientists.
 
awesome dawson said:
The choking death isn't a game, it's reality. Also your grandad wouldn't have had to stay locked up more than five months max (five years is a ridiculous statement) had the UK not had an incapable government or a population full of people like yourself who think they know better than the scientists.
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People like yourself haha you know nothing so do not embarrass yourself being so sanctimoniousness
 
awesome dawson said:
I'll leave the self-embarrassing to you. So you think the scientists who advise against ignoring lockdown advice know less than you?
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I have followed every rule asked, the fault of them not working does not lie with me haha, so yeh your comment of people like you is embarrassing just because we do not have the same opinion, its child like TBH

I have not argued with science? I have said that I am aware of the risks out there but its a matter of personal choice? I have said that with an average age in death of 82 when the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 that closing society to try and stop an inevitability on death for some which may have come in a different form this year is crazy.

You mention killing Granny but what if it is granny who wishes to take the personal choice and risk upon herself and wish to live her last years fruitfully? You do not speak for them people any more than I do anyone, but they most certainly exist.
 
Top Trump said:
A certain number of people die each year of various illness, that is life, we try and cant save everyone, show me someone who has lived forever?

To give a comparable view I would rather concentrate saving kids life from Cancer or those that have the rest of their lives to live potentially over an 82 year old Covid patient yes, its prioritizing based on life expectancy and quality of life.

I am not picking the bits that suit me, its just common sense to look at things with logic rather than sentiment. Average age of death in UK is 81, Average age of death is 82, so lets ruin society for people who are unfortunately going to pass away in a large % other other illness even if we save them from the risk of Covid? But thats ok as long as its not Covid? Its odd and disproportionate to the worlds problems.
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Let's take your bolded sentence as the catalyst for action. Because it certainly DOES have merit. Here's logic over sentiment for you.

1) Spend the money necessary to keep people as healthy as possible. Protect people, compensate the poor restaurant and bar owners who are about to get fiscally assaulted by the latest flip-flop of a useless, ineffectual and out of his depth PM (Germany and France seems able to manage it) and compensate other business who are suffering the same.

2) Mask mandates. Just wear a mask. You can trump-et on all you like about "liberty" and "freedom" (one, not necessarily you) but logic tells us this virus spreads far less effectively with people masked and distant. So wear one.


I personally have done exactly what I've been doing since March. Wear a mask around people, go out to the shops when necessary, long walks and bike rides, socially distanced meet-ups with people. When we are advised that a spike is on, the latter has been greatly lessened. My daughter sees her boyfriend because mental health is as important and we know the parameters of what he does/gets up to; to an extent. Everything is a risk assessment, and I have to say, I find the lack of firm leadership alarming but sadly unsurprising as BJ is an oaf.
 
Top Trump said:
I have followed every rule asked, the fault of them not working does not lie with me haha, so yeh your comment of people like you is embarrassing just because we do not have the same opinion, its child like TBH

I have not argued with science? I have said that I am aware of the risks out there but its a matter of personal choice? I have said that with an average age in death of 82 when the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 that closing society to try and stop an inevitability on death for some which may have come in a different form this year is crazy.

You mention killing Granny but what if it is granny who wishes to take the personal choice and risk upon herself and wish to live her last years fruitfully? You do not speak for them people any more than I do anyone, but they most certainly exist.
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I actually think the bold-face sentence becomes the crux of the issue.
Risk versus personal choice versus obligation to society versus civilized society acting for the greater good. Add to that equation a deepening, virulent strain of distrust regarding anyone in positions of power (hence the acceleration of conspiracy theories) and we are in a moment which (frankly) feels impossible.

I have long-held the belief that economics will dictate everything re: covid19, that in the end, few governments are going to be prepared to compensate people for the sort of lock-down which could've ended this. Indeed, I think it is too late. This virus is a part of our lives and history now, so it becomes about cures and therapeutics. We won't get rid of it sadly IMO. And FWIW, I think there is so much "Covid fatigue" that there is an element of "herd immunity" mentality taking place.
Me?
I will continue to do the best I can to stay safe, live some sort of life and be aware of others and the society I live in. Increasingly, the biggest virus I see in the world is that which is turning people into selfish, ignorant and narcissistic foghorns, spouting off every 5 minutes about "freedom" and "liberty"...it is what it is.

I have to say that (personally) whilst I disagree with a fair amount of what you said, I enjoyed the conversation...
 
Top Trump said:
I have followed every rule asked, the fault of them not working does not lie with me haha, so yeh your comment of people like you is embarrassing just because we do not have the same opinion, its child like TBH

I have not argued with science? I have said that I am aware of the risks out there but its a matter of personal choice? I have said that with an average age in death of 82 when the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 that closing society to try and stop an inevitability on death for some which may have come in a different form this year is crazy.

You mention killing Granny but what if it is granny who wishes to take the personal choice and risk upon herself and wish to live her last years fruitfully? You do not speak for them people any more than I do anyone, but they most certainly exist.
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A vast majority of scientists have recommended lockdown as the primary tool for mitigating the risks of covid so by saying you'll take your chances, you by default yes, you are disagreeing with the science. For every elderly person willing to take their chances, there's a load more who are terrified about the prospect of catching this virus and dying prematurely. Your one year estimation is absolute nonsense.
 
awesome dawson said:
A vast majority of scientists have recommended lockdown as the primary tool for mitigating the risks of covid so by saying you'll take your chances, you by default yes, you are disagreeing with the science. For every elderly person willing to take their chances, there's a load more who are terrified about the prospect of catching this virus and dying prematurely. Your one year estimation is absolute nonsense.
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I will say again its not ignoring the science its about making choices when aware of the science.

My Grandad is very aware of the risk and would be willing to take it for reasons mentioned before, he would rather die living a life at 75 than live hiding at home with no life at all.
 
Top Trump said:
I have followed every rule asked, the fault of them not working does not lie with me haha, so yeh your comment of people like you is embarrassing just because we do not have the same opinion, its child like TBH

I have not argued with science? I have said that I am aware of the risks out there but its a matter of personal choice? I have said that with an average age in death of 82 when the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 that closing society to try and stop an inevitability on death for some which may have come in a different form this year is crazy.

You mention killing Granny but what if it is granny who wishes to take the personal choice and risk upon herself and wish to live her last years fruitfully? You do not speak for them people any more than I do anyone, but they most certainly exist.
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Death isn't the only metric in this and I sometimes think the daily death figure is given too much attention
Yes, the vast majority of deaths are in the higher age brackets.
But not everyone who is hospitalised with covid is in those age brackets, and not everybody in hospital with covid dies.
But everyone who is hospitalised adds to the pressure on the hospitals and as the number of cases rise, then the pressure increases. Beds are re-allocated to increase covid capacity, meaning less capacity for other non-emergency patients; staff are re-allocated to covid wards meaning fewer staff to treat other patients - or staff become ill themselves or have to self-isolate, meaning fewer staff to treat any patients. Hence the heart breaking stories of people dying of cancer, for example, through delayed diagnosis.
Every time someone exercises personal choice and goes against the then current rules/guidance, they risk either spreading the virus if they are asymptomatic carriers or refusing to self-isolate (even if sometimes for understandable reasons), or catching it themselves and potentially becoming another pressure-point on the health service.
 
Look at Sweden - they’ve got it right!
Isolate those who are at risk and let everyone else live their own lives.
Let the elderly take risks - they can make their own choices (‘my dad/mum/grandad/grandma is out clubbing every night and he/she loves it’).

Constantly shifting sands on the anti-lockdown argument.
 
LutonSpurs said:
We absolutely do Chich. We have really bad systems and horrendous wealth disparities but we have the wealth to ensure we don't have to sacrifice our grans life to ensure kids get Calpol.
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It is why I will be voting labour and wanted to vote for them last time. I want a more equal society and see them as the party to get there.
 
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