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Coronavirus

tommysvr said:
Won’t be long before the usual suspects turn up with their usual excuses.

“Yeah but it’s hot in Australia”
“Yeah but your population is smaller”
“Yeah but you’re all inbred”
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The population of Victoria is more than Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Liverpool and Sheffield combined.

It's no mean feat, what they've done.

Organised and consistent messaging from the government and following the guidance of pandemic experts.

Who'd a thunk it?
 
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nayenezgani said:
The population of Victoria is somewhere around Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Liverpool and Sheffield combined.

It's no mean feat, what they've done.

Organised and consistent messaging from the government and following the guidance of pandemic experts.

Who'd a thunk it?
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Yep. And there has been significant cost and sacrifices to business, but now we go about fixing that in the same way we all came together to defeat this second wave.
 
tommysvr said:
Yep. And there has been significant cost and sacrifices to business, but now we go about fixing that in the same way we all came together to defeat this second wave.
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Claiming success requires belief that stopping a cough that was pretty much stopping anyway is more valuable than that cost to businesses (or, in reality, people).

That's quite a distance away from a reasonable position to take, let alone a sensible one.
 
scaramanga said:
Claiming success requires belief that stopping a cough that was pretty much stopping anyway is more valuable than that cost to businesses (or, in reality, people).

That's quite a distance away from a reasonable position to take, let alone a sensible one.
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tommysvr said:
Yep. And there has been significant cost and sacrifices to business.
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And potentially other lives.

"We've just terrified people into believing that the only safe place is home, no matter what so they're ignoring chest pain and other symptoms," said Dr Atkinson, a qualified cardiac surgeon.

"I can completely understand why COVID is the centre of our universe in Victoria and was nationally at one point, but we can't become an exclusive COVID service."

"COVID is not our only priority or more important, and it is safe to go to hospitals and people musn't delay their care."

Peter MacCallum's Dr Speakman said: "We do fear a wave of cancers coming when people are so anxious about going to the doctor.

"Already we are starting to see when they do present their cancer is more progressed than what we traditionally see."

"That means their chance of cure is decreased, the consequences are more severe and that may translate to more deaths down the road."

Medical practitioners said during the first national and second Melbourne lockdown, people with symptoms such as stomach aches and chest pain were remaining at home in the belief they were less important than COVID-19 patients, while others were too scared to go to hospitals due to media reports of doctors and nurses being infected with the virus.

Doctors said personal protective equipment (PPE) was available for medical staff and patients and hospitals were separated into COVID-19 and non-COVID-19 areas. Tele-health or face-to-face appointments were options.

16,000 extra British deaths

Healthscope's Dr Atkinson pointed to research by British health and actuarial officials who calculated that for every three COVID-19 deaths there was an extra two non-COVID deaths due to lockdown.

Some 16,000 extra people died between March 23 and May 1 because they were reluctant to attend hospitals, had difficulty accessing medical help and were discharged early from hospital
 
It has been a long time since i landed back in Melbourne on 4 April and did two weeks hotel quarantine before six months of lockdown. The relief today was palpable. I don’t want to brag because i think the coming months in Europe and elsewhere are going to be hard but I'm glad a scientifically backed solution to this mess has now been actually realised. It requires good leadership, excellent track and testing and most importantly civic obedience. There’s been times when we’ve stretched the rules for sure but generally speaking most people i know have stuck to the rules and it has worked. Problem now is all the pubs around me are fully booked up for the next week.
 
Legohamster said:
including 4 new born babies denied life saving treatment?
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Yeh and this is where I struggle with it. Like I said earlier there has been a cost, excessive Cancer deaths seem to be an acceptable trade off as long as people dont die from Covid and as we are talking the victory in Victoria https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...navirus-victoria-lifeline-calls-rise/12588500

And as a point of fairness to those that leveled at me, wrongly, that I thought it was ok for certain people to die, I would ask them the same question when it comes to those dying in Victoria in order for the country to get a grasp on Covid, is that ok?
 
Legohamster said:
including 4 new born babies denied life saving treatment?
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Where did I say that was a good thing? I haven’t even heard of what you’re referring to, but I did hear one pretty horrific story about a young child dying because the NSW/QLD border was closed, but that comes down to individuals making horribly wrong decisions.

And no one in their right mind would argue that as a benefit of lockdown. Lockdown is not a good thing. But it is proven, in Victoria’s case, to get us to literally 0 new cases, and now things can start improving in all aspects.

If Victoria did nothing two months ago, we would be where the UK is. Can you tell me your economy, mental health etc is better off because you didn’t go into lockdown?
 
tommysvr said:
If Victoria did nothing two months ago, we would be where the UK is. Can you tell me your economy, mental health etc is better off because you didn’t go into lockdown?
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Very true but the UK is hardly the gold standard to compare to, we are a mess.

On the face that of it you have done incredible but regardless how you compare to the UK the restrictions for Covid have been a trade off on more than just money.
 
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tommysvr said:
Where did I say that was a good thing? I haven’t even heard of what you’re referring to, but I did hear one pretty horrific story about a young child dying because the NSW/QLD border was closed, but that comes down to individuals making horribly wrong decisions.

And no one in their right mind would argue that as a benefit of lockdown. Lockdown is not a good thing. But it is proven, in Victoria’s case, to get us to literally 0 new cases, and now things can start improving in all aspects.

If Victoria did nothing two months ago, we would be where the UK is. Can you tell me your economy, mental health etc is better off because you didn’t go into lockdown?
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So why can we compare Australia / New Zealand to the U.K. but yet we can’t compare Sweden because of the different make up of the country?
 
Legohamster said:
nor did Spain, nor did Peru

both have/had tight lock downs.
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I accept we fudged it up too, when you plot out our plan its a car crash of epic proportion, thats not up for dispute

But even the standard bearers have had to make decisions that are a trade off, some people have a blindspot to that.

The idea that lockdown somehow saves health services is cloudy, it saved it from overloading with Covid patients but the priority is and always has been Covid and that continues post lockdown whilst other illness still gets pushed down the line.

To use our Australian friends as an example, only 27,000 cases is to be applauded without doubt, but even with their larger success in lockdown and dealing with Covid they are 40% down on treating cancer patients YOY, so when do we start to see this so called freeing up of services to deal with that? Is that from today? next week? next month? Im interested as it has been leveled that lockdowns save services to treat all.
 
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