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Coronavirus

glasgowspur said:
The fact the government has fudged it up from start to finish (should we ever get to the finish) isn't the discussion.
During the quieter summer months efforts should have been made to catch up with waiting lists, and clear hospitals for the second wave.
Efforts should also have been made to get a proper system for dealing with the next round of cases, and what path we want to take for it. A clear and precise message of what we should all be doing, why we should be doing it and the benefits of sticking to it.
Instead they have passed summer doing GHod knows what.
That doesn't make any real difference to what @Grays_1890, @scaramanga, myself and others have been saying, there was three months of almost nothing that a plan could have been formulated and put in place. Any plan.
Not to mention that we are now almost 10 months into it, it's been obvious for a long time thus isn't a flash in the pan, yet we have no plan that seems to look further than three weeks.

I have some sympathy for governments, they are in a terrible no win situation, but many, ours included are handling terribly.
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Spot on

10 months in and we are are announcing a circuit breaker to take place two weeks after we announced a three tier process after a summer of mini restrictions and lockdowns. And if you look at the UK as a whole and then look at what Wales, Scotland, NI and England are doing separately it makes for even more horrific reading of lack of plans.
 
awesome dawson said:
It’s scientifically proven to work and save lives. The fact the UK Government is too stupid to realise that continuing as they are isn’t sustainable and will lead to the NHS being overwhelmed in the coming months beggars belief. That fact your pubs are still open is simply ridiculous. Have already done a majority of this year under lockdown, i miss a lot of things including the pub but I’m looking forward to a future which doesn't include a thousand daily deaths. The selfish idiots in the UK are taking the country down the herd immunity route regardless of what science or the rest of the country want.
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At what point won't you do lockdown?

Once there is a vaccine?
 
Surely that's the only option if you champion a Lockdown? Another Lockdown. A two week breaker won't work long term the way they want it so its likely to come with a caveat of “we will extend should we see fit" and will last longer, or after lockdown two weeks later as the curve rises and panic set in we will be in for another circuit breaker
 
My plan would be as follows:

1.Stop air travel in to the uk, Until a test can be delivered within the hour. And then before anyone leaves the airport.

Then introduce a strict 3 week lovkdown with the following rules.

1. Make everyone download and use the app (assuming they can get it working). Block their phone if the app is not installed and turned on. Anyone walking around without a phone with an active ap should be fined for the first offense and arrested for the second. No App or mask no entry into shops.
2.anyone walking around without mask should be fined for the first offense and arrested for the second.
3. Put the army on the streets to enforce the lock down.
4. All staff in to care homes and hospitals have to go through the 1 hour test before they start their shift.
This would be the same for all essential workers in any environment (supermarkets etc)
5. All non emergency hospital visits will go through a 1 hour test, remotely before they get their pass to visit the hospital.
6. All patients in the hospital will be tested daily.
7. All people that have the Coronavirus that are not ill (and in hospital) have to be put in enforced quarantine, in CV secure hotels (not may visitors in them now anyway).
8. In the lead up to the tight lock down advertise it Encourage people to buy the essentials to last 3 weeks so they won't have to go out. Work with amazon and other logistics companies to make sure this is possible. Work with age concern and other charities to make sure that as few people as possible slip through the cracks.
9. Going out for excersize should be monitored by the app In terms of time and proximity to people.

I understand these are very harsh restrictions, but it is for 3 weeks to starve the virus, the key to it is the test within the hour. You can then re open the economy but keep the app and mask restrictions. And expand the 1 hour testing
 
What is the deal with pubs and schools opening and closing at the same time everytime. NI closed both today.

Seems that whenever either is talked about closing the other gets lumped in? I don't get it, surely going to work and school supersedes pub talk?
 
scaramanga said:
A trigger would require some kind of element of surprise wouldn't it?

That's the communist ideal that we all know @DTA really wants anyway.
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Haha fuc k communism, I'm a left leaning Liberal with two businesses.

I just want a kinder more compassionate form of capitalism, for people, animals and the planet. Which would actually make capitalism more sustainable long term.

The restrictions i would place would be extremely harsh, but would only be temporary and lot less damaging to the economy then lockdowns that would last for months.
 
DTA said:
Haha fuc k communism, I'm a left leaning Liberal with two businesses.

I just want a kinder more compassionate form of capitalism, for people, animals and the planet. Which would actually make capitalism more sustainable long term.

The restrictions i would place would be extremely harsh, but would only be temporary and lot less damaging to the economy then lockdowns that would last for months.
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Philosophically I don't think a capitalist (of any nature) can accept that level of government control. Governments rarely know best and tend to be far less good at doing most things.

Power is a ratchet just like taxation and social spending. You don't get it back once it's given away.
 
DTA said:
My plan would be as follows:

1.Stop air travel in to the uk, Until a test can be delivered within the hour. And then before anyone leaves the airport.

Then introduce a strict 3 week lovkdown with the following rules.

1. Make everyone download and use the app (assuming they can get it working). Block their phone if the app is not installed and turned on. Anyone walking around without a phone with an active ap should be fined for the first offense and arrested for the second. No App or mask no entry into shops.
2.anyone walking around without mask should be fined for the first offense and arrested for the second.
3. Put the army on the streets to enforce the lock down.
4. All staff in to care homes and hospitals have to go through the 1 hour test before they start their shift.
This would be the same for all essential workers in any environment (supermarkets etc)
5. All non emergency hospital visits will go through a 1 hour test, remotely before they get their pass to visit the hospital.
6. All patients in the hospital will be tested daily.
7. All people that have the Coronavirus that are not ill (and in hospital) have to be put in enforced quarantine, in CV secure hotels (not may visitors in them now anyway).
8. In the lead up to the tight lock down advertise it Encourage people to buy the essentials to last 3 weeks so they won't have to go out. Work with amazon and other logistics companies to make sure this is possible. Work with age concern and other charities to make sure that as few people as possible slip through the cracks.
9. Going out for excersize should be monitored by the app In terms of time and proximity to people.

I understand these are very harsh restrictions, but it is for 3 weeks to starve the virus, the key to it is the test within the hour. You can then re open the economy but keep the app and mask restrictions. And expand the 1 hour testing
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Not being cheeky but how does that starve the virus?
Is not still out there when you open up again?
If we all hide away the virus won't bugger off.
 
glasgowspur said:
Not being cheeky but how does that starve the virus?
Is not still out there when you open up again?
If we all hide away the virus won't bugger off.
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I am on the same page, those that have locked down and admittedly done very well have seen it return.

NZ reported zero and it came back, although is small numbers but you apply the same logic to the UK where the country is much more dense and rebellious in nature, much more reliant on intercity commerce then its never gonna work for us.

The lockdown was late for us hence the damage in deaths but a second is not the way forward for me, its not me saying to hell with the elderly but the first bite of this virus will be the worse for those and the vulnerable thats how they work.

If we continue to go back and forth till we get a vaccine, and lets be clear for all which judging by the flu jab shortage will be a joke too, then we are in for a bad 6 to 8 more months, then the additional hell we have to return to will also become apparent.

Fact is, strap in folks, once this virus is beat you have recession and delay reaction to losing loved ones to untreated illness.
 
Baleforce said:
the virus needs hosts, if you have it you can only pass it on for so long, if we stop infection it dies off
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But you are not going to do that in entirety for the UK to aim that you are talking a lockdown worse than the first, you also need that to be global or the spread still has a chance. That route is a route to huge devastation
 
Grays_1890 said:
But you are not going to do that in entirety for the UK to aim that you are talking a lockdown worse than the first, you also need that to be global or the spread still has a chance. That route is a route to huge devastation
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I think a 14 day "circuit breaker" done properly (including international travel restrictions), with the right bubble assignments and resources, backed with working test and trace will work

as long as everybody, and it has to be every body, does their bit
 
Baleforce said:
I think a 14 day "circuit breaker" done properly (including international travel restrictions), with the right bubble assignments and resources, backed with working test and trace will work

as long as everybody, and it has to be every body, does their bit
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I think there are enough businesses teetering on the edge because of the government's last lockdown. I don't think there's any scope at all for more.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

Pictures of large crowds gathering in Liverpool two hours before new Covid-19 restrictions came into effect "shame our city", its mayor has said.

Footage on social media showed people dancing and surrounding a police car in Concert Square at 22:00 BST.

Liverpool City Region is the only area in the top tier of the government's new system of coronavirus restrictions.

Mayor Joe Anderson said ignoring facts about the virus was "why we are in Tier 3 measures".
 
scaramanga said:
I think there are enough businesses teetering on the edge because of the government's last lockdown. I don't think there's any scope at all for more.
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it all depends on the driver, if the target is to kill of the virus I don't think there is any other way
 
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