NoLimits01
Goran Bunjevcevic
But so are all politicians regardless of party or views, it’s a job that corrupts people on the way up the ladder.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
But so are all politicians regardless of party or views, it’s a job that corrupts people on the way up the ladder.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
The whole house is full of tacos on all sides, they showed that with their actions last summer.
Didn't SAGE specifically say not to try and eradicate it, said it's better to suppress it at low levels.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
New Zealand and UK are hard to compare tbh. You could argue its winter so closing borders is easy. They have a small and well spread population. I think that along with a good lockdown has contributed to their success.
This isn't to say if UK had locked down earlier and harder that we wouldn't now be looking at less deaths. But there is no evidence to say that there is any immunity in New Zealand. What they might have is better treatment.
Lots to be understood yet.
This isn't to say if UK had locked down earlier and harder that we wouldn't now be looking at less deaths. But there is no evidence to say that there is any immunity in New Zealand. What they might have is better treatment.
Lots to be understood yet.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I don't subscribe to that opinion actually. It may be true that some become utterly corrupt, but not all. Some politicians certainly lie more than others and some lies are more egreious than others.
It is part of the overlapping defence used by populists to push whataboutisms/the entire system is corrupt/everyone lies so what difference/the truth is unknowable. When the truth is destroyed then loyalism and tribalism take hold. The brexit debate is perfect example, as is what is happening in the states.
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Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Of course I get your point two very different countries I guess my point is, there was nothing to stop us following something similar right? All this talk of the economy etc, as an island we had a great opportunity to really seriously put in place short pain steps for long term goal. Instead we just roostered it.
Because we have more than 10 people living in the UK.
He's they did.
It was only the furore caused when the Mirror et al caught sight of the results from the 1970s code of doom that forced them to change tack.
awesome dawson
Mitchell Thomas
The comparison with NZ is hard because of the reasons listed above. However she has demonstrated empathic, effective and strong leadership. Even pre Covid those earthquakes were pretty horrific, let alone the mosque shooting which led to 50 deaths (to which they enacted an immediate ban on most guns + 1m handed in IIRC).
Australia is also not a perfect comparison but 25m live here, mainly in two cities which are both bigger than Manchester or Birmingham. 101 deaths and single figures in terms of daily cases at the moment. Hotel quarantine picks up most new cases coming in still to this day. We all know how much those cases can replicate if left to roam free.
Just out of interest, why do those on here that stand up for Boris's response as being acceptable? This virus doesn't give a fcuk about party politics, this is the biggest that's come up in most of our lives, doesn't that warrant independent thinking?
Australia is also not a perfect comparison but 25m live here, mainly in two cities which are both bigger than Manchester or Birmingham. 101 deaths and single figures in terms of daily cases at the moment. Hotel quarantine picks up most new cases coming in still to this day. We all know how much those cases can replicate if left to roam free.
Just out of interest, why do those on here that stand up for Boris's response as being acceptable? This virus doesn't give a fcuk about party politics, this is the biggest that's come up in most of our lives, doesn't that warrant independent thinking?
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I agree with all of this
But to have independent thinking you need independent Information and our press now so biased one side or the other you simply don’t get it
The truth will come out over time and be countered with some fake news too and I’m far from convinced that we will ever find out what could and should have happened
I’ve seen loads of thins about the post 911 reaction and met a few “experts”. What’s clear from that is the truth got quickly buried by those that needed to burry it (gov/press/media) and I’m convinced the same will happen here
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Both of you entirely nailed it there.
This government has done a terrible job handling the pandemic. You can be a Tory, but are you blind? Like, I would happily criticise Spurs even though I'm a Spurs fan. Doesn't make me less of a fan, but this Govt has been awful, why can't Tory fan boys call them out? Hell even Piers Morgan is doing it, so why can't you?
Second of all, certain people seem to like to to think we have a free impartial press. We dont. The biggest selling papers are Sun and Mail (right wing), Levenson 2 was canned by the right wing government because it didn't suit their right wing press buddies.
A secretary of state (Gove) interviewed Trump WITH MURDOCH IN THE fudging ROOM. Even Theresa May danced to his tune (see here). And let's be clear here, this is a Tory Party issue now, it was a Labour one back under Blair. He's godfather to a Murdoch child for fudges sake.
Until you solve the complicity between media barons and the people in power, you'll never solve anything, and that's why Levenson 2 was scrapped.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
I wonder how that godfather thing is working now ever since Murdoch accused Blair of fudging his missus?
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I just want to qualify that I believe early lockdown would have made sense and the government is complicit in an absolute travesty.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
I can't remember what it was, whether we had the highest death toll or breached that 20K number (think it was the 20k), the Telegraph (right wing Tory paper) broke the news on Prof Ferguson's breach of the rules. They had the story from 3 weeks before, but chose THAT day to break it. They sat on it, and waited, for the appropriate time to release and what's front page after that, Prof Ferguson's sex life. Not the death toll numbers. Same with Sun, Mail, Times etc...
And then the Sheep of the nation read that, follow those websites, get their news from there, not realising the news is skewed to suit it's party allegiances (and again, this isn't specific to Tories as Guardian obvs left wing/Labour), but the most prominent news outlets in UK are all right wing and will shovel brick into the mouths of its readers that suit it's party allegiances.
And then the Sheep of the nation read that, follow those websites, get their news from there, not realising the news is skewed to suit it's party allegiances (and again, this isn't specific to Tories as Guardian obvs left wing/Labour), but the most prominent news outlets in UK are all right wing and will shovel brick into the mouths of its readers that suit it's party allegiances.
Equally the Guardian sat on the Cummings story for some weeks as well. They made enquiries to police etc over a month before publishing the story. We need to move away from this political spectrum of good v bad. There's erroneous tactics happening across all areas.
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I think there's been some huge mistakes:
- Locking down earlier, if there's going to be a lockdown at all then do it hard and early but the advice for a period was that it wasn't required and I think 3/4 days before it actually happened the advice from SAGE chanaged and simply said to do it soon which makes it a hard one to call. In hindsight of course we would have it done weeks beforehand but when the scientists said they underestimated the amount of infection already in the country it's hard to disgree too much. Also looking at the data we'd actually peaked before lockdown even happened so the informal lockdown of don't go out, we recommend not to go to pubs etc had some effect - deaths peaked on 8 April and it apparently takes 3-4 weeks from getting infected to dying so we were technically on a downward trend prior to it starting
- Quarantine, why on earth they didn't qurantine everyone early I still don't get. Even Trump managed this. I don't buy all this infected people are already in the country so it doesn't do much. Surely the aim then is to have less infected people in the country yet as of Sunday you could fly in from Brazil, saunter through customs and get straight on the tube at rush hour.
- Releasing the elderly back into care homes without testing them - I honestly don't know how anyone can be dumb to think this wouldn't cause issues.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Not entirely the same (not saying things of the same nature aren't done by the Guardian), but they didn't have the full details and hence did not publish. They did not purposely withhold the information to release at a given point of time to assist the government like the Prof Ferguson affair was done. The Telegraph released the story at a specific time to distract from what would have been a major news story, that we breached the 20k death figure.