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Coronavirus

SpurMeUp said:
Interesting one.

There is a philosophical approach that says there is no such thing as impartiality. The only form of objectivity (in history, which news is right) is to understand each author's bias. Then you can be objective.

I hear what you are saying with the BBC. They put themselves in a position where for example, the journalist knows something is wrong or does not add up, but they have to present the flip side and look impartial. Which is a muddle. But they have to do it. They have let both sides speak, and they have to put their opinion to one side. It is a core tenant of reputable news reporting. There are opinion sections of newspapers etc.

Polls suggest the majority of the nation don't believe Cummings' story, so Matlis' accusation is not far wide of the mark. What is funny is that the people up in arms are usually anti-political correctness. Here they are getting their knickers in a twist about an organisation self-regulating.
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it’s not just this, the BBC have long had an issue, they gave undue prominence to climate change deniers for years for example
 
JerusalemMan said:
Seems that the FT reports that the UK has had the highest number of excess deaths (59,537) among countries that produce comparable data, not “excess COVID19 deaths in the world".
Less than 40,000 deaths in the UK mention COVID-19 on death certificate, so the presentation of the tweet this is somewhat misleading.
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They backed this horse weeks ago and are going stick to it till the end.

Approx 60k missed cancer diagnoses in this time, we have to start opening up - the affect on the virus is worse than the virus now.
 
P.D. said:
The rage for Cummings is incredible, having caught up on this thread I believe there's almost as many pages talking about him as there was Poch being sacked.

Based on what I've read driving there is technically within the guidelines although it's I guess what one would say isn't in the spirit of them and probably bends them slightly but it does seem to give a slight unclarified get out for childcare. I'm fairly sure in a court of law based on how it's worded he'd be found not guilty. The other drive to check his eyesight is more dodgy and I'd say against the rules but is no different to what a lot of people have been doing in popping out for a drive and walk somewhere quiet.

I would say the issue is how it's been communicated, Johnson could have apologised and said some people might not agree with his actions and he's made a mistake etc etc but on the balance I believe he acted in good faith bla bla and things could move on. Problem Johnson has is he isn't really an emphathetic leader.

I think as a parent myself and faced with a similar situation I can't say I wouldn't do a drive like that myself so it's hard to be too critical on it, a lot of it is because people hate him anyway and had already lined up to hang him regardless of reasons - we see this time and time again.
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I think it would have made a big difference if the government, when first approached about Cummings being in Durham, had confirmed it, explaining the childcare issue and, importantly, pointing out the part of the guideline that permitted this action. Yes there would still have been a furore, that is unavoidable I think, given his role in drawing up the guidelines and also personal animosity towards him, but I think the furore would have been less so than it is now as it was early enough in the lockdown for a genuine clarification of the rules to be given and for others to potentially have benefitted (although in practice I'm not sure how many would actually have been in similar circumstances).
However the delay of something like 6 weeks in coming clean, the idea that Cummings is an essential worker yet no one can confirm when/whether he first told his boss or colleagues that he was going away/was already away, the 60 mile round trip 'test' drive, all read like a backfill story. The whole thing has been terribly handled. Yet Cummings has been backed by Johnson, so the outrage, if there is to be any, should now be directed at Johnson.

I think it is right that the media continue to follow this, but not to the detriment of everything else. e.g Hanrooster on the radio this morning talking about track and trace : Nick Robinson asked him a few questions, then moved straight to the Cummings issue. A chance to forensicly question Hanrooster on T&T (or as much as you can be forensic in a 10 minute interview) was lost. For a process that seems full of holes, that was a massively lost opportunity to draw out some of the detail.
 
Parklaner81 said:
You don't actually believe this, do you?
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I do. It is not that he drove all that way. Or went out to the castle on his wife's birthday. They are forgivable under the circumstances with his 4 year old. It is that he barefaced maintains he did no wrong. That is what upsets people. It says 1. you were all mugs for observing lockdown 2. I don't really respect the rules I help create 3. I am a bit crap at PR and don't really recognise that people have made some massive sacrifices and 4. I am unable to admit I am wrong 4. I am unable to put the nation's health (setting a precedent) above my own reputation...and so on.

Massive own goal.
 
galeforce said:
It’s that the BBC thought her remarks breached their impartiality guidelines that worries me.

The BBC’s misguided insistence on balance for everything is a contributing factor to the brickshow in this country over the last decade.

Time to wheel this quote out again.

"If someone says it's raining & another person says it's dry. It's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fudging window and find out which is true."
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Yeah but right wingers demand the former don't they and if a Tory lie is exposed they claim it as evidence of BBC bias.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I'd agree with a lot of that but your hate of him appears to have caught up with you in the conclusion?......and appears to belie your second sentence

A fathers strongest instinct is to protect/look after his children and his wife at all costs. Whether he's a chief policy maker for the gov or centre forward for Real Madrid. We're all the same on that level....it's primal.

To be challenged about that instinctive behaviour (and not always in a pleasant way).....will quite easily lead to a 'f.uck you' attitude

Should he act differently because of his position, probably yes......but he, you, me wont because of the above.

Then you're kicker........i thought it was going to read like this......

And here's the kicker, the BIG difference between Cummins and me, you, the general public. He is a major policy maker/influencer who is in a position of enormous importance and leadership. Again, I am keeping my own personal views about this off the table...the fact remains that in his current role, he needs to be a leader who cannot, literally, be left holding the baby. To be involved in policy-making and running the country, surely if the main carer for your (autistic) son is bed ridden for 14 days, you can not step into that 24 hour role the with workload, responsibility and importance that your current job carries. In a fluid escalating situation he needs to think quickly and find a solution?

Thats why i'd let this one pass. Of course if more came to light and it starts unravelling then i can and will reassess. The castle bit is a bit gonad*y, only because of the eyesight nonsense. But If all three of them have been laid up with covid for 2 weeks and then all feel a load better, then natrually the idea of a run out to a nice outdoor place is normal. (possibly against the rules, but normal thinking).

Thats why i said the 'blog thing' was more interesting as it obviously calculated and pre-meditated but of course slightly stupid having no awareness of digital footprints
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Ha, ha, ha. Yep this man is so central, so important to the running of the nation that... he had no support at all in looking after his kids. Gee any one would think he was a single mother working in a dispatch centre on a zero hours contract, called in at the last minute for a two hour shift at three in the morning. Kind of undermines this argument in all sorts of ways doesn't it? A bit of irony in there as well.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I do. It is not that he drove all that way. Or went out to the castle on his wife's birthday. They are forgivable under the circumstances with his 4 year old. It is that he barefaced maintains he did no wrong. That is what upsets people. It says 1. you were all mugs for observing lockdown 2. I don't really respect the rules I help create 3. I am a bit crap at PR and don't really recognise that people have made some massive sacrifices and 4. I am unable to admit I am wrong 4. I am unable to put the nation's health (setting a precedent) above my own reputation...and so on.

Massive own goal.
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You're right. In fact, I can just see the Mirror's front page now...

'Cummings breaks the rules - but he's admitted it, so lets leave it there'
 
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I reckon we can look forward to Johnson making an announcement re his resignation due to the demands of the the job and on going ill health at some point in the next 12 months. His efforts and performances have been an embarrassment in the last four or so weeks and the powers that be will not tolerate it long term.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Ha, ha, ha. Yep this man is so central, so important to the running of the nation that... he had no support at all in looking after his kids. Gee any one would think he was a single mother working in a dispatch centre on a zero hours contract, called in at the last minute for a two hour shift at three in the morning. Kind of undermines this argument in all sorts of ways doesn't it? A bit of irony in there as well.
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Go Gilly go!
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Ha, ha, ha. Yep this man is so central, so important to the running of the nation that... he had no support at all in looking after his kids. Gee any one would think he was a single mother working in a dispatch centre on a zero hours contract, called in at the last minute for a two hour shift at three in the morning. Kind of undermines this argument in all sorts of ways doesn't it? A bit of irony in there as well.
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Ahhh the old Cummings can't be a protective father because Jan from the NHS has a different set of circumstances.

Or cos a single mum with covid has to look after her child, means he should when he had a better potential solution available to him and his family?

Thats kind of dumb really
 
Grays_1890 said:
Ahhh the old Cummings can't be a protective father because Jan from the NHS has a different set of circumstances.

Or cos a single mum with covid has to look after her child, means he should when he had a better potential solution available to him and his family?

Thats kind of dumb really
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You'll never make a 'hype man' :D
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Oh actually i see the question from an early post.

Do i think brexit is as important as a global pandemic?

Well i dont understand the framing of that question so shall answer it as follows.

Do i think the future sovereignty and democracy of our country is as important as a senior political advisor possibly breaking a minor infringement for the safety of his family?

Yeah i do mate.

Actually think brexit is far more important.


Think anyone who can prove they were travelling for family reasons should refuse to pay any fines and can feel they behaved with integrity to be honest.
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The framing of the question was very simple and easy to ascertain, it was a direct response to your statement that you are happy to "turn a blind eye" to Cummings actions, despite disagreeing with those actions, because he is important to Brexit.

So you clearly think Brexit is more important than your own morals and more important than the lives of the residents of this country.
Good to know.
Safe to say I have just lost all respect for you.
 
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