Coronavirus

[SpurMeUp]

I'm telling your mam

You popped round to see her too?

 

[Rorschach]

You popped round to see her too?

Well, there was a queue but at least there was social distancing lines on the path.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

They were definitely all going to die.

Well yes.
Allow me to rephrase : "...but not necessarily in the "oh, they were old/infirm and going to die imminently anyway" category.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Yeh that complete shutdown early stops people getting the cases.

You make it sound like HK had the number of cases that America had but managed to save the lives of those in care homes by testing. That is rubbish and a flawed argument.

HK had 1000 cases with 96% recover rate, had nothing to do with testing.

I don't think anyone's arguing that, but clearly testing and isolating the ill, rather than returning them into otherwise healthy populations, has helped keep their numbers so low. I can't see how that's arguable?

Obviously taking it seriously and locking down early will have also had a big effect. But did they get to go to the horse racing? Did they gonads. 1-0 to us.

 

[AuroRaman]

Is there anyone who isn't?

Great, thanks @SpurMeUp

 

[Mikey10]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nd-wave-of-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[scaramanga]

Is there anyone who isn't?

Nope

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't think anyone's arguing that, but clearly testing and isolating the ill, rather than returning them into otherwise healthy populations, has helped keep their numbers so low. I can't see how that's arguable?

Obviously taking it seriously and locking down early will have also had a big effect. But did they get to go to the horse racing? Did they gonad*s. 1-0 to us.

Testing and isolating did not keep the virus low though lockdown did in my opinion.

Your last part just endorses that

 

[Grays_1890]

Hardly the numbers being touted on here


As the German government is effectively ending lockdown measures, reports about people dying of COVID-19 in retirement and care homes are increasing.

Over the weekend four people, three men and one woman, died of the coronavirus in the Protestant retirement and nursing home of the Inner Mission in Planegg, Bavaria. On Friday, the health department of the city of Mönchengladbach confirmed the death of an 82-year-old resident at the St. Antonius retirement home.

German nursing homes have become death traps in the coronavirus pandemic, making clear that is not only in the United States, Italy and Spain where COVID-19 has rampaged out of control.

According to figures from the Robert Koch Institute released on April 23, around 1,500 residents of retirement and nursing homes had died of a coronavirus infection. At that time, this amounted to almost a third of all COVID-19 deaths in Germany and the number of unreported cases is certainly much higher.

 

[Spur of the moment]

HK had 1000 cases with 96% recover rate, had nothing to do with testing.

"Once we have any person infected we isolate them in hospital for three months and at the same time we isolate all the close contact people in a separate quarantine centre for 14 days for observation.

“They do tests regularly in that 14 days to make sure they don’t have the virus. We use a supercomputer to trace the close contacts of people being infected particularly for cluster outbreaks.”

Why the fudge would you not want to try anything and everything that clearly helped save so many lives in Hing Kong?

 

[Grays_1890]

Why the fudge would you not want to try anything and everything that clearly helped save so many lives in Hing Kong?

I am not saying that I would not want to try it but I strongly believe it is not the major part that has saved lives. For HK with their dense population and only 1000 cases moves to the fact that the lockdown and the quick lockdown was the ultimate winner for them, lockdown came first and testing second, that tells me what I need to know. Had they detected 100,000s of thousands who locked down and saved lives I would subscribe to your thought process but even with the 14 day testing it is reliant on the principles of lockdown.

And as has been reported globally testing has been erratic in in so I am sceptical on the accuracy and again how much we can rely on it. Germany again an example because they love their examples of their greatness proved this with their 2m more cases than their testing uncovered.

So for me HK has done well, very well if the cases and death toll is your Everest but it is primarily their lockdown regime and their obedience to sticking to the rules.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I am not saying that I would not want to try it but I strongly believe it is not the major part that has saved lives. For HK with their dense population and only 1000 cases moves to the fact that the lockdown and the quick lockdown was the ultimate winner for them, lockdown came first and testing second, that tells me what I need to know. Had they detected 100,000s of thousands who locked down and saved lives I would subscribe to your thought process but even with the 14 day testing it is reliant on the principles of lockdown.

And as has been reported globally testing has been erratic in in so I am sceptical on the accuracy and again how much we can rely on it. Germany again an example because they love their examples of their greatness proved this with their 2m more cases than their testing uncovered.

So for me HK has done well, very well if the cases and death toll is your Everest but it is primarily their lockdown regime and their obedience to sticking to the rules.

Okay, whilst I would still maintain that the WHO's advice to test test test should undoubtedly have been an important part of the UK's strategy I broadly agree with the rest of your argument.

 

[Grays_1890]

Okay, whilst I would still maintain that the WHO's advice to test test test should undoubtedly have been an important part of the UK's strategy I broadly agree with the rest of your argument.

Yeh look there is no hard and fast, its just a POV based on post data and information, I think the WHO has proven that there is no guidebook with it, alot of it is trial and error.

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1263160395675643907

 

[scaramanga]

"Once we have any person infected we isolate them in hospital for three months and at the same time we isolate all the close contact people in a separate quarantine centre for 14 days for observation.

“They do tests regularly in that 14 days to make sure they don’t have the virus. We use a supercomputer to trace the close contacts of people being infected particularly for cluster outbreaks.”

Why the fudge would you not want to try anything and everything that clearly helped save so many lives in Hing Kong?

Liberty, freedom, all those things so many people fought so hard to give us.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1263160395675643907

Thats actually quite funny.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Liberty, freedom, all those things so many people fought so hard to give us.

I'm 101% behind you when it comes to freedom and liberty but there is always a balance to be struck. Saying that I note that Tory governments are never slow to restrict protests around Parliament Square in the name of public safety so please, spare us the sanctimony.

We're talking here about a level of incompetence that frankly stretches credulity.

 

[Robspur12]

I am not saying that I would not want to try it but I strongly believe it is not the major part that has saved lives. For HK with their dense population and only 1000 cases moves to the fact that the lockdown and the quick lockdown was the ultimate winner for them, lockdown came first and testing second, that tells me what I need to know. Had they detected 100,000s of thousands who locked down and saved lives I would subscribe to your thought process but even with the 14 day testing it is reliant on the principles of lockdown.

And as has been reported globally testing has been erratic in in so I am sceptical on the accuracy and again how much we can rely on it. Germany again an example because they love their examples of their greatness proved this with their 2m more cases than their testing uncovered.

So for me HK has done well, very well if the cases and death toll is your Everest but it is primarily their lockdown regime and their obedience to sticking to the rules.

Not really sure of your point here. Of course having a test per se doesn’t save lives. Social distancing will. The problem is you cannot lockdown forever. So to lift lockdown it is essential to know where your virus is so you can lockdown/isolate specific people and specific areas. Take schools and care homes for example, if you want to reopen them to the general public, if you do not test who of the prospective visitors has the virus you are potentially sending the virus into these vulnerable areas. Testing and isolating has been part of the public health armoury for years and has been part of a successful strategy against an untold number of diseases. ESPECIALLY where you have no treatment, cure or vaccine. I can’t believe we are arguing this in 2020. To me it appears that you are arguing a case to make out the government has not done as badly as it has. Not testing and tracing earlier has probably cost thousands of lives. There is no doubt that will be the conclusion of any public enquiry into this mess. Even the Chief Medical officer has said on TV that we must learn the lessons around testing. There is no argument here unless you also believe the earth is flat.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not really sure of your point here. Of course having a test per se doesn’t save lives. Social distancing will. The problem is you cannot lockdown forever. So to lift lockdown it is essential to know where your virus is so you can lockdown/isolate specific people and specific areas. Take schools and care homes for example, if you want to reopen them to the general public, if you do not test who of the prospective visitors has the virus you are potentially sending the virus into these vulnerable areas. Testing and isolating has been part of the public health armoury for years and has been part of a successful strategy against an untold number of diseases. ESPECIALLY where you have no treatment, cure or vaccine. I can’t believe we are arguing this in 2020. To me it appears that you are arguing a case to make out the government has not done as badly as it has. Not testing and tracing earlier has probably cost thousands of lives. There is no doubt that will be the conclusion of any public enquiry into this mess. Even the Chief Medical officer has said on TV that we must learn the lessons around testing. There is no argument here unless you also believe the earth is flat.

no I’m claiming that testing isn’t as black and white as made out and the success those we aspire to are seeing is down to lockdown. That isn’t nothing to do with what we have and not done and many cases applauded others for their lockdown reaction if that’s your Everest as I’ve said plenty.

Track and trace on a virus that we know little about isn’t working away from lockdown, it’s why many countries are stuck with the lockdown gun to their head because as you rightly say you can’t be locked down forever.

But I will counter the testing argument to say, if HK or Germany or anyone has testing down cold why are they not at a more advanced end of lockdown? Why has Germany and Korea taken one step forward and two back? Surely they know who in lockdown does not have CV to the millions so you let them go back to work and then systematically test those that haven’t been tested and let them resume life post negative result?

Surely if HK only have 1000 odd positives in 5 months They should be nearly 100% back to normal life based on the success of lockdown AND Track and trace?

Facts are testing is so patchy it isn’t near where people say it is, that’s not point scoring it’s fact.

 

[Robspur12]

no I’m claiming that testing isn’t as black and white as made out and the success those we aspire to are seeing is down to lockdown. That isn’t nothing to do with what we have and not done and many cases applauded others for their lockdown reaction if that’s your Everest as I’ve said plenty.

Track and trace on a virus that we know little about isn’t working away from lockdown, it’s why many countries are stuck with the lockdown gun to their head because as you rightly say you can’t be locked down forever.

But I will counter the testing argument to say, if HK or Germany or anyone has testing down cold why are they not at a more advanced end of lockdown? Why has Germany and Korea taken one step forward and two back? Surely they know who in lockdown does not have CV to the millions so you let them go back to work and then systematically test those that haven’t been tested and let them resume life post negative result?

Surely if HK only have 1000 odd positives in 5 months They should be nearly 400% back to normal life based on the success of lockdown AND Track and trace?

Facts are testing is so patchy it isn’t near where people say it is, that’s not point scoring it’s fact.

Again I am finding it hard to understand your objection to test and trace. Testing and tracing is not a cure or a treatment, it is only a means to tell you where the virus is so it can be contained. It is one part of a strategy but on its own will not stop the virus on that I agree with you. The effectiveness of a test and trace system will depend on how it is implemented. On the basis of what has gone on before, I bet we will find a way to fudge up our system. Again I agree, to contain the virus you need social distancing. But you can surely see that countries are at different stages of their lockdown? A lot of that will be because they have, through, effective testing and tracing been able to track their virus. And now they are using testing and tracing to identify cases and lock those cases down to prevent a second wave.