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Coronavirus

jts1882 said:
I don't know as I don't know what could have been done. Visitors were stopped, but they could hardly stop staff, nurses and doctors visiting. These were old people who needed constant care and attention that has to involve intimate contact.

The care homes have been a problem everywhere that has had community transmission and high death rates. It's hard to see a particular choice the government made that can be criticised, at least at this point in time. The blanket you should have done something criticism is rather empty without a specific error, especially as other countries have had the same problem.
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Number 1 is preparedness. Chinese people were dying in droves, then Iranians, then Italians. The UK acted fast with some things - we were one of the first to make a test. We had exceptional biomedical resources in the UK. Yet we dropped the ball getting prepared. A huge criticism is the government seeing what was happening and preparing well for it. That is a 'particular choice that can be criticised'.

Two, when it was clear we were unprepared, we didn't get testing setup nearly quick enough, or ensure it was being used. This was an infrastructure and logistics failure rather than a science issue. The UK has so many labs able to test.

Three, despite government advisors flagging up care homes as vulnerable - covid affects older people we knew this in Jan - nothing was done to strengthen our defense. Worse, we undermined care homes by sending sick people into the system.

Four, the government did not rally the nation, and use the resources at its disposal. Whether that was getting PPE, making it, using labs around the nation etc. We did get a volunteer army for the NHS, but so much more could have been done.

Five, messaging, it was not clear, no time was given for announcements to be implemented and the nation didn't feel like it was pulling together to achieve an aim (imo)

Are these 5 specific enough? I'm shooting from the hip, but to me it has been clear from the off, the government have been reacting, rather than taking effective control. It was a hard task, but there are clear things that could have been done a lot better.
 
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jts1882 said:
I don't know as I don't know what could have been done. Visitors were stopped, but they could hardly stop staff, nurses and doctors visiting. These were old people who needed constant care and attention that has to involve intimate contact.

The care homes have been a problem everywhere that has had community transmission and high death rates. It's hard to see a particular choice the government made that can be criticised, at least at this point in time. The blanket you should have done something criticism is rather empty without a specific error, especially as other countries have had the same problem.
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You can however test doctors etc to make sure they are good to go.

I believe some staff live on site as well?
 
Just seen a little chavvy clam who lives a few floors above where I do smoking weed in one of the bin sheds with a load of his pals
Not the first time I've seen him do this either
Am really tempted to report him
The mum couldn't give 2 bricks
fudging little clam really has no clue and he is ginger
 
Legohamster said:
Teachers unions are being complete tacos.

Advising teachers not to get into discussions with how to safely get back.
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As always. They will always obstruct Conservative govts because they're ideologically opposed to them.

Johnson missed a trick to break them while the schools are shut.
 
We received an email last night from our eldest's primary school

We were thoroughly impressed with how they are proposing to deal with kids going back and we are happy with her going

It's basically for 2.5 hours, 9.00am-11.45am or 12.45pm-3.15pm, 3 times a week
In classes of 11
Staggered break times, no lunches at the school
Key workers children educated seperately
 
markysimmo said:
We received an email last night from our eldest's primary school

We were thoroughly impressed with how they are proposing to deal with kids going back and we are happy with her going

It's basically for 2.5 hours, 9.00am-11.45am or 12.45pm-3.15pm, 3 times a week
In classes of 11
Staggered break times, no lunches at the school
Key workers children educated seperately
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Seems like you have a good school.

A friend got a letter with 20 bullet points trying to put them off sending them back.

scaramanga said:
As always. They will always obstruct Conservative govts because they're ideologically opposed to them.

Johnson missed a trick to break them while the schools are shut.
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Spot on.

It’s nothing more than a political point scoring.

They know jobs are safe, so they don’t have to worry.

Unlikely the workers that need to get back to work.

No one is saying they need to go back tomorrow
 
Legohamster said:
Teachers unions are being complete tacos.

Advising teachers not to get into discussions with how to safely get back.
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It’s not safe to be in a pub.
It’s not safe to be in a restaurant.
It’s not safe to be on a crowded train or bus.
You shouldn’t see your mother and father together in an open air setting.
Offices need to stagger their workers’ attendance to avoid too many being in an enclosed space at once.
Plenty of evidence from the NHS and transport settings that high viral load can spell death, yet no evidence provided from government (despite three separate requests from unions) that children don’t spread the virus in the same way as adults.

But, never mind; pop into that classroom with 15 pupils for hours each day...it’s safe as houses. Honest, guv.

Thank goodness the unions are ‘being tacos’. Long may it continue.
 
Mikey10 said:
It’s not safe to be in a pub.
It’s not safe to be in a restaurant.
It’s not safe to be on a crowded train or bus.
You shouldn’t see your mother and father together in an open air setting.
Offices need to stagger their workers’ attendance to avoid too many being in an enclosed space at once.
Plenty of evidence from the NHS and transport settings that high viral load can spell death, yet no evidence provided from government (despite three separate requests from unions) that children don’t spread the virus in the same way as adults.

But, never mind; pop into that classroom with 15 pupils for hours each day...it’s safe as houses. Honest, guv.

Thank goodness the unions are ‘being tacos’. Long may it continue.
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Wouldn't you rather work for a living than get paid to sit at home?

I'd feel ashamed if some mob of jumped up wide boys used brute force to make an employer pay over market rates for my services. Especially if I wasn't even doing that work.
 
Just in case anyone is missing the international comparison chart during The Lies at Five, here’s the latest headlines:

Germany - population 81 million - circa 7,000 deaths

UK - population 65 million - 60,000 deaths

US - population 328 million - circa 75,000 deaths.

Not good whichever way it’s spun.
 
scaramanga said:
Wouldn't you rather work for a living than get paid to sit at home?

I'd feel ashamed if some mob of jumped up wide boys used brute force to make an employer pay over market rates for my services. Especially if I wasn't even doing that work.
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Mr Troll has come out from under his bridge!

You do make me chuckle, to be fair. :D
 
Mikey10 said:
It’s not safe to be in a pub.
It’s not safe to be in a restaurant.
It’s not safe to be on a crowded train or bus.
You shouldn’t see your mother and father together in an open air setting.
Offices need to stagger their workers’ attendance to avoid too many being in an enclosed space at once.
Plenty of evidence from the NHS and transport settings that high viral load can spell death, yet no evidence provided from government (despite three separate requests from unions) that children don’t spread the virus in the same way as adults.

But, never mind; pop into that classroom with 15 pupils for hours each day...it’s safe as houses. Honest, guv.

Thank goodness the unions are ‘being tacos’. Long may it continue.
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They are refusing to discuss it, point blank refusing.

Let’s see how this pans out when the self employed are getting less support from the Gov and can’t go back to work because schools are refusing to even discuss work arounds.
 
scaramanga said:
Seriously though - why do you need a union?

If you're good and hardworking, you'll get a market rate for your abilities/efforts
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Right. Because the history of private ownership tells us that quality of work/product is always placed before profit-margin.
If we're lucky, there is a balance between companies who do it right (get the balances fair) and companies who do it wrong (go cheap cheap cheap and fudge the quality of either work or product).
 
Legohamster said:
They are refusing to discuss it, point blank refusing.

Let’s see how this pans out when the self employed are getting less support from the Gov and can’t go back to work because schools are refusing to even discuss work arounds.
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I think we will then see the start of some very ugly brick.
 
thfcsteff said:
Right. Because the history of private ownership tells us that quality of work/product is always placed before profit-margin.
If we're lucky, there is a balance between companies who do it right (get the balances fair) and companies who do it wrong (go cheap cheap cheap and fudge the quality of either work or product).
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You need to meet more union leaders
Utter utter self centred bell ends
The kind of kids that got left out the teams at school because they smelt
The reason they exist is because it hides their inabilities to do their actual job
The principles of a union is great but I’ve never ever met one senior guy in a union who isn’t in it for themselves and themselves alone
The last guy I met was at Hinckley point.. he thought he was the fudging Lord Mayor with his necklace with every union on it... he complained about everything... and I men’s everything even though 80% of it was gonads... I got involved as he wouldn’t talk to anyone who actually worked there. I smashed him to bits in the negotiation by simply saying very thing he was complaining about was for the safety and security if his members...
had the same people at RR when I started and they did no work. Smoked in the toilets. Stole form the vending machines. Took the pay rise for coffee breaks being removed but still took the breaks, and then complained when there was no work available for their “over time”

the union that my wife deals with as an NHS manager have been great
 
thfcsteff said:
Right. Because the history of private ownership tells us that quality of work/product is always placed before profit-margin.
If we're lucky, there is a balance between companies who do it right (get the balances fair) and companies who do it wrong (go cheap cheap cheap and fudge the quality of either work or product).
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Businesses that underpay their employees will not be in business for long.
 
My experience of a Union in the professions was pretty good. Just having the sheer weight of numbers to force middle management back into their shells when taking the tinkle with not sticking to the staff/senior management consensus on terms and conditions.

It is a two way street. Sometimes owners/ have the upper hand, sometimes the workers.

Right now, it’s not looking good for anyone.
 
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