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Coronavirus

Grays_1890 said:
I always find the lauding of teachers OTT because non teachers are trying to do a job that isn’t natural and now they want them paid more? All jobs are hard in their own right and if I swapped professions for a day with someone I would suspect we would both find it tough. If you stuck a car in a teachers drive and asked them to change the gear box they couldn’t possibly so does that mean a mechanic is under paid?
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I’m not saying teachers work harder than mechanics, or nurses, or people who work in KFC. I do take exception to an entire profession being branded as lazy, particularly given my personal experience.
 
Grays_1890 said:
So Germany are experiencing what has long been the worry, relaxing means the spread continues again, so the only way you keep the death toll or spread down is to stay at home. If that’s your way you feel you conquer the crisis

They tried to bring football back and now a teams in lockdown because of it.

Korea are experiencing the same because people are out clubbing and that’s caused a spike.
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And the same thing will happen in the UK once people begin to move around again. Difference is we’ve got a 30,000 head start in the death count as we head into the second wave.
 
The rules* being broken this weekend is exactly what the government wants to happen - people making it end of their own accord. Why else would Boris say on Thursday that there will be changes to the lockdown and that it will start on Monday - but he won’t tell us what will change until Sunday evening? It’s a green light in all but name.
If there was any serious intent about the lockdown there would be much more enforcement rather than the softly softly approach we have been seeing. Either have lockdown or don’t. We’ve had a half-arsed version which is neither one thing or the other. Mixed messaging has given people licence to ignore it, causing more spread of the disease and a huge number of deaths.
*I mentioned ‘rules’ above but even the police in the tweet posted earlier talk not of rules, but of ‘guidelines’.
I think this has been shockingly managed.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
We dont. That is the state pension, if you have never saved for a private pension than your an idiot. I dont care if you have done low paid work, i was saving into a pension when i was labouring in my late teens.

Was raised to put money aside, the fact that Gordon brown came along and fcuked my pit is neither here nor there.
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Fair enough! So long as you weren’t banking on the state second pension which has gone for most of the working population. A considerable loss by the way.
 
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Mikey10 said:
And the same thing will happen in the UK once people begin to move around again. Difference is we’ve got a 30,000 head start in the death count as we head into the second wave.
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Yep it will but what’s the alternative?

Unless Germany stay locked down they will get a spike that’s what their success in containing the virus hinges on. Do you see them doing that and seeing their Economy does a result?
 
Glenda's Legs said:
The rules* being broken this weekend is exactly what the government wants to happen - people making it end of their own accord. Why else would Boris say on Thursday that there will be changes to the lockdown and that it will start on Monday - but he won’t tell us what will change until Sunday evening? It’s a green light in all but name.
If there was any serious intent about the lockdown there would be much more enforcement rather than the softly softly approach we have been seeing. Either have lockdown or don’t. We’ve had a half-arsed version which is neither one thing or the other. Mixed messaging has given people licence to ignore it, causing more spread of the disease and a huge number of deaths.
*I mentioned ‘rules’ above but even the police in the tweet posted earlier talk not of rules, but of ‘guidelines’.
I think this has been shockingly managed.
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The rules were very clear, travel for essential work only if you can’t work from home. You can only be out for exercise and essential shopping. People choose to ignore them, that’s not on the Government and people doing it in large numbers makes it hard for the police to well police. The public know that, they cottoned on and now it’s bedlam, the rules are there, the outcome for breaking is there to see aka death, that’s on the public, there is responsibility outside the government.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yep it will but what’s the alternative?

Unless Germany stay locked down they will get a spike that’s what their success in containing the virus hinges on. Do you see them doing that and seeing their Economy does a result?
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There is no alternative - until a vaccine or good therapeutic treatments are found every country in the world (bar those governed by lunatics) will be stuck in a cycle of easing lockdown and tightening restrictions again.

My point was that 30,000+ more families are mourning loved ones in the UK than is the case in Germany. I know which government I would trust more to control the mortality rate as both countries move forward.
 
Grays_1890 said:
The rules were very clear, travel for essential work only if you can’t work from home. You can only be out for exercise and essential shopping. People choose to ignore them, that’s not on the Government and people doing it in large numbers makes it hard for the police to well police. The public know that, they cottoned on and now it’s bedlam, the rules are there, the outcome for breaking is there to see aka death, that’s on the public, there is responsibility outside the government.
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Yes I agree the public needs to take responsibility but when they act irresponsibly there needs to be stronger penalties, not just a chat advising people to go home.
You mention “essential shopping” but, as an example, I don’t believe for one minute the couples I saw queuing outside Wickes today were doing essential shopping. But that’s down to the mixed messages - essential shopping only but you can go to other stores for non-essential shopping.
People will always push boundaries and I generally agree with challenging and questioning authority but when we are talking about the current life and death situation then I expect our government to take a more definitive stance.
 
Mikey10 said:
There is no alternative - until a vaccine or good therapeutic treatments are found every country in the world (bar those governed by lunatics) will be stuck in a cycle of easing lockdown and tightening restrictions again.

My point was that 30,000+ more families are mourning loved ones in the UK than is the case in Germany. I know which government I would trust more to control the mortality rate as both countries move forward.
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Yeh of course but I think the new spike goes again to show there is no guide book on this and the main question is can a Germany for example afford to have a permanent lockdown and not see a detrimental side due to the economy failing?

I think we are still as I’ve said many times seeing what the real outcome is going to be on this globally, in a years time we will know the real winners and losers and I would say there will be no winners, just losers
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Yes I agree the public needs to take responsibility but when they act irresponsibly there needs to be stronger penalties, not just a chat advising people to go home.
You mention “essential shopping” but, as an example, I don’t believe for one minute the couples I saw queuing outside Wickes today were doing essential shopping. But that’s down to the mixed messages - essential shopping only but you can go to other stores for non-essential shopping.
People will always push boundaries and I generally agree with challenging and questioning authority but when we are talking about the current life and death situation then I expect our government to take a more definitive stance.
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Home DIY is an essential shop there are no middle grounds there, if people are going for the pure craic of it that again is on them.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
The rules* being broken this weekend is exactly what the government wants to happen.
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A cynic might say they dont want deaths to get too low as it would be hard to continue with lockdown :)

Anyway, tons of group gatherings around here today (SW London). Seen about 20 kids playing a basketball match, all ages sun-bathing, lots of neighbours drinking together in gardens. Police around but don't say anything.
 
Mikey10 said:
I know you aren’t making a political point, but it does make me chuckle that Gordon Brown was responsible for your pension crashing - not a worldwide banking collapse caused by bank deregulation (and for his handling of which Brown has since received praise from countries all over the world due to his statesmanship in helping to stop the entire global economy from going under) .

Meanwhile the coronavirus UK death toll is caused by a worldwide pandemic which many (and that probably doesn’t include you) seem to feel the current government should be excused any responsibility for.

Odd.
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I think he's talking about in 1997 when Brown abolished tax relief on pension dividends which took in over 5 billion a year in the first year alone away from pensions, this led to the boom in buy to lets/housing and massively inflated prices and a massive decline in pension savings.
 
P.D. said:
I think he's talking about in 1997 when Brown abolished tax relief on pension dividends which took in over 5 billion a year in the first year alone away from pensions, this led to the boom in buy to lets/housing and massively inflated prices and a massive decline in pension savings.
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Ah - my mistake if so. Ta!
 
scaramanga said:
Sack them and replace them with non-unionised staff
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Even if that were possible in the real world...

Massive shortage of teachers in UK.

Minimum time to train a teacher = 4 years.

Average time for DBS safeguarding check to be processed = 3 months.

Weeks left of summer term = 8.

Good luck with that approach.
 
The people not obeying lockdown are going to push the R up again and then we will have another spike. I understand that it will be 4 weeks or so till we start seeing the effects of that. That's taking us well in to June so we can expect a summer in lockdown as they will have to reimpose the restrictions if the health system starts creaking.

Think this is plausible?
 
Mikey10 said:
I know you aren’t making a political point, but it does make me chuckle that Gordon Brown was responsible for your pension crashing - not a worldwide banking collapse caused by bank deregulation (and for his handling of which Brown has since received praise from countries all over the world due to his statesmanship in helping to stop the entire global economy from going under) .

Meanwhile the coronavirus UK death toll is caused by a worldwide pandemic which many (and that probably doesn’t include you) seem to feel the current government should be excused any responsibility for.

Odd.
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Actually it is a political point and it had nothing to do with 2008. He took tax relief off pensions in the early noughties long before the 2008 crash.

I was earning 30 grand or there abouts in 2000 i was not a high earner but people like me saw our savings destroyed.

At actually worked out well for me, my trust was so broken i stopped paying in and with a friend from building sites we went into doing up properties and buy to let.

Brown was behind the buy to let boom due to his tax on pensions. People needed to find another way to save for their retirement.

My father who was a labour man all his life kept saying that they would do something about it. Between 98 and 2005 his pension decreased by 45% he finally took retirement in 2009 as he was worried the pot would keep decreasing. He died in 2014, he did not get to do the things i spent 40 years working and dreaming about. He never voted for the last ten years of his life.

Im not making this up to win an argument on the internet, browns pension stealing was as bad as anything maggie did and you might be to young to remember this but it was before the financial crisis and it hardest the middle class who had done as they were told and saved all their life.
 
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