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Coronavirus

LutonSpurs said:
Does anyone have a broadly impartial analysis of the Sweden experiment?
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ricky2tricky4city said:
Not saying it's impartial but did you not watch the video Scara posted a few pages back. The Swedish expert involved with the Swedish approach?
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As @ricky2tricky4city said, I linked to the person who is most likely to know about it, although there will be some obvious bias there.

If you read a cross-section of (English language) reports, it seems that they have "flattened the curve" without the need for intrusive demand by the govt. This has come at the cost of a significantly higher death rate and infection rate than what their critics are calling comparable neighbours.

The true test of the Swedish theory will be when we have more detailed and accurate testing.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Things have seemed quite a bit busier around north east London the last two days. More cars, some businesses that were closed semi-open. It could just be the weather, but it feels like people are venturing out more, with the shock/fear of the virus easing. Probably not a good thing, but can't blame anyone.
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Yep, my traffic-free commute is rapidly deteriorating. Queues are getting longer at supermarkets again too.
 
scaramanga said:
As @ricky2tricky4city said, I linked to the person who is most likely to know about it, although there will be some obvious bias there.

If you read a cross-section of (English language) reports, it seems that they have "flattened the curve" without the need for intrusive demand by the govt. This has come at the cost of a significantly higher death rate and infection rate than what their critics are calling comparable neighbours.

The true test of the Swedish theory will be when we have more detailed and accurate testing.
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This is a good visual on it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1252698426116096001
 
So now we have Aurier and Sissoko filmed out training together.
First thing I heard when I switched on the radio this morning - "more Tottenham players breaking the guidelines".
 
milo said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1252841436317315072
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It's way to early to be looking at the death rate. Death does not work to any predictable pattern, and comparing one month this year to the same month any other year is not how its done.

I have doubts about just about every figure quoted so far when it comes to this, context is everything and until last week there was never any context given. Now its given but on a very limited scale.
 
scaramanga said:
That article doesn't really look at the longer term cost of everyone having no money to buy food and clothes.
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It does. It talks about the social unrest likely as a result of disruption to the economy through continual cycles of lockdown.
 
Mikey10 said:
It does. It talks about the social unrest likely as a result of disruption to the economy through continual cycles of lockdown.
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That's not nearly the same thing.

Lock down too early for too long and more businesses go pop, leaving more families without jobs, houses, etc. Not to mention entire generations growing up in poverty and the knock on effects on their education, etc. The cycle repeats for a long time.
 
scaramanga said:
IMO, the closer we can get to a publicly funded, private healthcare system, the better.

I don't believe the issue is the independence of the trusts, it's the centralised aspect of it. Having to get a central system to approve suppliers/products can work if everyone has enough time for bureaucracy and paper shuffling. Being able to decide completely independently which products to purchase would speed things up.

That's more a side effect of having a healthcare system that's 70 years out of date though.
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For testing, I think there has been a huge mistake trying to centralise testing in a few NHS labs. Instead we should have decentralised testing and used all the many small labs up and down the nation.

There is no doubt, that not getting testing moving quicker and putting in place systems to test care workers effectively, has cost thousands of lives. Some GPs and hospital have paid for testing from small local labs. Often they find asymptomatic nurses who would have worked with patients completely unaware that they are caring the virus. How many people went into hospital for one thing, and die from this virus?

We are still not testing effectively 1 month into lockdown. Even us lot on this board could see weeks ago that testing was fundamental to saving lives and exiting the lockdown. I am baffled as to why more has not been done. Can only conclude that those in charge are not agile, forward-thinking or able to handle such an event. Why the PM and Cabinet have not taken charge and sorted it, is worrying.
 
SpurMeUp said:
For testing, I think there has been a huge mistake trying to centralise testing in a few NHS labs. Instead we should have decentralised testing and used all the many small labs up and down the nation.

There is no doubt, that not getting testing moving quicker and putting in place systems to test care workers effectively, has cost thousands of lives. Some GPs and hospital have paid for testing from small local labs. Often they find asymptomatic nurses who would have worked with patients completely unaware that they are caring the virus. How many people went into hospital for one thing, and die from this virus?

We are still not testing effectively 1 month into lockdown. Even us lot on this board could see weeks ago that testing was fundamental to saving lives and exiting the lockdown. I am baffled as to why more has not been done. Can only conclude that those in charge are not agile, forward-thinking or able to handle such an event. Why the PM and Cabinet have not taken charge and sorted it, is worrying.
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Isn't testing and certification of labs controlled by PHE? My understanding is that most of the other labs are all private labs and only available at cost which in the early days of the spread would have caused a huge storm (though it's down to the government to counter that with why private labs are needed) and there would be more bureaucracy to certify them. Those labs would still need the re-agents and machines to do the testing - you need a supplier who can do the whole process (manufacturer of re-agents, provide machines etc) and they have that now (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...oronavirus-tests-day-thermo-fisher-scientific).

It seems the issue is logistics of testing, now there's capacity for 38K a day but we do about half that - why not start using the rest of those tests for parts of the population etc and start to build a picture of what's going on.
 
scaramanga said:
That's not nearly the same thing.

Lock down too early for too long and more businesses go pop, leaving more families without jobs, houses, etc. Not to mention entire generations growing up in poverty and the knock on effects on their education, etc. The cycle repeats for a long time.
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Which has to be balanced with many breadwinners in families potentially dying if the virus is allowed to run unfettered through society. Lots on long term sick leave as they recover. People unwilling to visit shops and restaurants because of fear of contracting the virus (the Chinese government is currently giving away vouchers to encourage people to leave their homes and spend).

Not easy whichever viewpoint or approach you take.
 
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