Contingency planning : When Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[braineclipse]

Which means it's something we just keep doing!!

If you mean we keep addressing those holes in the squad with a mix of here and now and more long term solutions I fully agree.

We're probably never going to run out of problems to fix in the squad, but them becoming fewer is definitely a good thing.

 

[Muttley]

Which means it's something we just keep doing!!

But we've done it right. We had a finite budget that only covered certain positions. So we left positions like GK and LB to the next window. We've now closed one of those gaps, and will move onto the next one.

I know it all feels painful right now but the squad evolution is working. We're getting to one out - one in stage.

It's not a bad place when your next job is to sell Bissouma and replace him with a better player.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I don't think the urgency or priorities with regards to position/role should change much, if at all, based on one injury (unless a season ender or multiple months thing).

A forward player has been a priority for us already, with Ange confirming that we at least had interest in Muani.

The ideal solution is to sign a player that we (the club) really like, for now and the future. A player we would have wanted to sign in the summer if not possible now. There's still time for that imo, and what I hope is being worked on.

As well as looking at potential loan/urgent needs type signings if the ideal solution can't happen.

I agree that a forward should be one of the priorities. But really I would rather fix any issue properly than emergency short term "fix" a specific position. If that can't be done get an emergency option in a priority position.

Yes I agree with all that. I said at the start of the window that all we are interested in for permanent deals is the players we have been tracking for some time.
Then Loans with no obligation to bridge a gap or help a situation.

I think urgency does increase when such a main player goes down coupled with the league position we find ourselves in at the back end of January. That urgency is reduced if we hear Dom is a 1-2 week problem.

I think if we had the opportunity for one of our long term CF/AW options to be signed we would have done it by now regardless of the Dom injury (much like Kinsky).

We are in loan territory now. And I can't be arsed to look who's potentially available

 

[braineclipse]

Yes I agree with all that. I said at the start of the window that all we are interested in for permanent deals is the players we have been tracking for some time.
Then Loans with no obligation to bridge a gap or help a situation.

I think urgency does increase when such a main player goes down coupled with the league position we find ourselves in at the back end of January. That urgency is reduced if we hear Dom is a 1-2 week problem.

I think if we had the opportunity for one of our long term CF/AW options to be signed we would have done it by now regardless of the Dom injury (much like Kinsky).

We are in loan territory now. And I can't be arsed to look who's potentially available

I don't think we quite are there yet. That may just be my optimism speaking, but most of our recent deals have broken late. And we do have somewhat of a history for making late in the window signings...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I don't think we quite are there yet. That may just be my optimism speaking, but most of our recent deals have broken late. And we do have somewhat of a history for making late in the window signings...

Fingers crossed

 

[metalgear]

I'm beginning to question how good the Lange and Munn partnership are. They have bought a bunch of teenagers and Solanke. And this month looks like SFA. I want Paratici back.

considering how quickly they brough in kinski, it seems they had no intention of progressing austin and whiteman
also lack of a 4th CB when last season it was clear we'd need reinforcements there
they got grey, bergvall and kinski though - maybe its a budget problem?

 

[metalgear]

Who else do you think would be great appointments?

with this squad - nagelsmann and de zerbi.
i am not tied in to any system but anyone who plays energetic and clever football, being able to flex to unlock the potential of players/playing them to their strengths

 

[braineclipse]

with this squad - nagelsmann and de zerbi.
i am not tied in to any system but anyone who plays energetic and clever football, being able to flex to unlock the potential of players/playing them to their strengths

Nagelsmann surely isn't happening with him in the Germany job...

What are your thoughts on some of the other names being "linked"?

 

[Muttley]

with this squad - nagelsmann and de zerbi.
i am not tied in to any system but anyone who plays energetic and clever football, being able to flex to unlock the potential of players/playing them to their strengths

I liked De Zerbi. He took Potter's great work and perhaps even raised the bar. Kept losing players and kept moulding a team.

Eventually he may think that coming 2nd place to PSG will get boring. Unless he does the unthinkable.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Probably one better suited to another thread (transfer wishlist/squad thread?) but anyway....

Assuming we're not going to be in Europe next season and we don't lose any of the 'experienced' players that we want to be keeping then , I would just go again with young signings in the Summer.

With our current squad, no European competition to play in and a few more young but semi-proven signings next season I think we'd be incredibly likely to make European competition the year after.

We would then be well equipped with a young squad that had already acquired a decent amount of experience and that summer could add a couple of ready made players, giving us the squad to actually battle on all fronts.

Here is a full list of our options this summer (I think Hojbjerg's Marseille deal had an obligation for him to join them for about £15m?)

1. Kinksky
2. Vicario
3. Forster
4. Austin
5. Keeley
6. Whiteman

7. Spence
8. Porro
9. Udogie

10. Romero
11. Van der Ven
12. Dragusin
13. Davies
14. Phillips (U21)
15. Vuskovic (U21)
16. Dorrington (U21)

17. Gray (U21)
18. Bergval (U21)
19. Sarr
20. Bentancur
21. Bissouma
22. Maddison
23. Abbot (U21)
24. Devine (U21)
25. Donley (U21)

26. Johnson
27. Kulu
28. Odobert (U21)
29. Moore (U21)
30. Son
31. Yang (U21)
32. Solomon
33. Gill

34. Solanke
35. Richarlison
36. Lankshear (U21)
37. Scarlett
38. Veliz

Loan most of the talented youngsters, sell a few of the unwanted, bring in 4 more very talented 19 to 23 year olds and we've got a chance of becoming an important club again.

I'd keep those I've bolded. Sell Richarlison, Gill, Solomon, one of Bissouma or Bentancur and release Foster. Along with Hojbjerg going that probably brings in about £70 million in transfer fees.

Add players like Dibbling to give another option out wide, Delap to as an option up front, someboy like Miguel Gutierrez from Girona or Diouf as I've been mentioning from Slavia Prague at left back and Samuele Ricci as a defensive midfield player and we would could be great in the future as well as decent enough right now. All of those signings are coming from clubs lower down the food chain than we are (especially in wages) so should be realistic ones for us.

The below looks to be a decent squad to me for a campaign without the extra games required for european football.

----------------------------Vicario/Kinsky/Austin
Porro/Spence----Romero/Dragu--------VDV/Davies/Phillips---------Udogie/Gutierrez
-----------------------------------Gray/Ricci
------------------Bentancur/Bergval-------Maddison/Sarr
---Kulu/Johnson/Yang-----------Solanke/Delap------------Odobert/Dibbling/Son/Moore

Looking at the above it may even make sense to sell Son as well.

I think with that squad we'd probably also still be operating the league's lowest wage to turnover ratio, even without the added revenue from European football, so it should be acceptable to our owners.

Personally I'd stick with Ange for now to manage a squad like that and see how he does with a bigger squad of players he wants, with less fatigue and (hopefully) far fewer injuries.

If he doesn't prove up to it then we need a manager with the requisite level of experience to manage a big club. I've said for a while that I think Marco Silva is probably the best person out there that would probably accept the job and could do pretty well at Spurs.

 

[Muttley]

Probably one better suited to another thread (transfer wishlist/squad thread?) but anyway....

Assuming we're not going to be in Europe next season and we don't lose any of the 'experienced' players that we want to be keeping then , I would just go again with young signings in the Summer.

With our current squad, no European competition to play in and a few more young but semi-proven signings next season I think we'd be incredibly likely to make European competition the year after.

We would then be well equipped with a young squad that had already acquired a decent amount of experience and that summer could add a couple of ready made players, giving us the squad to actually battle on all fronts.

Here is a full list of our options this summer (I think Hojbjerg's Marseille deal had an obligation for him to join them for about £15m?)

1. Kinksky
2. Vicario
3. Forster
4. Austin
5. Keeley
6. Whiteman

7. Spence
8. Porro
9. Udogie

10. Romero
11. Van der Ven
12. Dragusin
13. Davies
14. Phillips (U21)
15. Vuskovic (U21)
16. Dorrington (U21)

17. Gray (U21)
18. Bergval (U21)
19. Sarr
20. Bentancur
21. Bissouma
22. Maddison
23. Abbot (U21)
24. Devine (U21)
25. Donley (U21)

26. Johnson
27. Kulu
28. Odobert (U21)
29. Moore (U21)
30. Son
31. Yang (U21)
32. Solomon
33. Gill

34. Solanke
35. Richarlison
36. Lankshear (U21)
37. Scarlett
38. Veliz

Loan most of the talented youngsters, sell a few of the unwanted, bring in 4 more very talented 19 to 23 year olds and we've got a chance of becoming an important club again.

I'd keep those I've bolded. Sell Richarlison, Gill, Solomon, one of Bissouma or Bentancur and release Foster. Along with Hojbjerg going that probably brings in about £70 million in transfer fees.

Add players like Dibbling to give another option out wide, Delap to as an option up front, someboy like Miguel Gutierrez from Girona or Diouf as I've been mentioning from Slavia Prague at left back and Samuele Ricci as a defensive midfield player and we would could be great in the future as well as decent enough right now. All of those signings are coming from clubs lower down the food chain than we are (especially in wages) so should be realistic ones for us.

The below looks to be a decent squad to me for a campaign without the extra games required for european football.

----------------------------Vicario/Kinsky/Austin
Porro/Spence----Romero/Dragu--------VDV/Davies/Phillips---------Udogie/Gutierrez
-----------------------------------Gray/Ricci
------------------Bentancur/Bergval-------Maddison/Sarr
---Kulu/Johnson/Yang-----------Solanke/Delap------------Odobert/Dibbling/Son/Moore

Looking at the above it may even make sense to sell Son as well.

I think with that squad we'd probably also still be operating the league's lowest wage to turnover ratio, even without the added revenue from European football, so it should be acceptable to our owners.

Personally I'd stick with Ange for now to manage a squad like that and see how he does with a bigger squad of players he wants, with less fatigue and (hopefully) far fewer injuries.

If he doesn't prove up to it then we need a manager with the requisite level of experience to manage a big club. I've said for a while that I think Marco Silva is probably the best person out there that would probably accept the job and could do pretty well at Spurs.

It all makes sense to me. Personally, I'd be wary of keeping Davies, and have a curiosity how good Vuskovic can be alongside Phillips as 4th and 5th choice. Wouldn't be surprised if one of them nudges ahead of Dragusin who could be player traded as well.

I'd be up for letting Sonny go. Buonanotte seems a good addition in the wide areas.

You are directionally correct though. It also shows how the heavy lifting is behind us. It becomes more straightforward from this point.

 

[braineclipse]

Probably one better suited to another thread (transfer wishlist/squad thread?) but anyway....

Assuming we're not going to be in Europe next season and we don't lose any of the 'experienced' players that we want to be keeping then , I would just go again with young signings in the Summer.

With our current squad, no European competition to play in and a few more young but semi-proven signings next season I think we'd be incredibly likely to make European competition the year after.

We would then be well equipped with a young squad that had already acquired a decent amount of experience and that summer could add a couple of ready made players, giving us the squad to actually battle on all fronts.

Here is a full list of our options this summer (I think Hojbjerg's Marseille deal had an obligation for him to join them for about £15m?)

1. Kinksky
2. Vicario
3. Forster
4. Austin
5. Keeley
6. Whiteman

7. Spence
8. Porro
9. Udogie

10. Romero
11. Van der Ven
12. Dragusin
13. Davies
14. Phillips (U21)
15. Vuskovic (U21)
16. Dorrington (U21)

17. Gray (U21)
18. Bergval (U21)
19. Sarr
20. Bentancur
21. Bissouma
22. Maddison
23. Abbot (U21)
24. Devine (U21)
25. Donley (U21)

26. Johnson
27. Kulu
28. Odobert (U21)
29. Moore (U21)
30. Son
31. Yang (U21)
32. Solomon
33. Gill

34. Solanke
35. Richarlison
36. Lankshear (U21)
37. Scarlett
38. Veliz

Loan most of the talented youngsters, sell a few of the unwanted, bring in 4 more very talented 19 to 23 year olds and we've got a chance of becoming an important club again.

I'd keep those I've bolded. Sell Richarlison, Gill, Solomon, one of Bissouma or Bentancur and release Foster. Along with Hojbjerg going that probably brings in about £70 million in transfer fees.

Add players like Dibbling to give another option out wide, Delap to as an option up front, someboy like Miguel Gutierrez from Girona or Diouf as I've been mentioning from Slavia Prague at left back and Samuele Ricci as a defensive midfield player and we would could be great in the future as well as decent enough right now. All of those signings are coming from clubs lower down the food chain than we are (especially in wages) so should be realistic ones for us.

The below looks to be a decent squad to me for a campaign without the extra games required for european football.

----------------------------Vicario/Kinsky/Austin
Porro/Spence----Romero/Dragu--------VDV/Davies/Phillips---------Udogie/Gutierrez
-----------------------------------Gray/Ricci
------------------Bentancur/Bergval-------Maddison/Sarr
---Kulu/Johnson/Yang-----------Solanke/Delap------------Odobert/Dibbling/Son/Moore

Looking at the above it may even make sense to sell Son as well.

I think with that squad we'd probably also still be operating the league's lowest wage to turnover ratio, even without the added revenue from European football, so it should be acceptable to our owners.

Personally I'd stick with Ange for now to manage a squad like that and see how he does with a bigger squad of players he wants, with less fatigue and (hopefully) far fewer injuries.

If he doesn't prove up to it then we need a manager with the requisite level of experience to manage a big club. I've said for a while that I think Marco Silva is probably the best person out there that would probably accept the job and could do pretty well at Spurs.

Interesting perspective.

Personally would be torn between that kind of approach and a more "here and now, best players we can get that are mid twenties at most".

"Just" 4 signings needed between January and the summer if they're the right profile? I don't disagree...

 

[Lemonade Money]

I'd be wary of keeping Davies

Why? If he's happy with the current situation, he's worth his weight in gold. I wish we had more players with his attitude and experience.

 

[Muttley]

Here's another question.

We have an amazing bunch of younger players but we know there will be less than we think that will make the grade.

Keeley, Dorrington, Phillips, Vuskovic, Abbott, Hall, Craig, Gray, Bergval, Donley, Devine, Moore, Scarlett, Lankshear, Veliz, Yang

16 names there. How many will still be Spurs owned players by next September?

I think 4, perhaps 5 of them will be sold this summer.

 

[Muttley]

Why? If he's happy with the current situation, he's worth his weight in gold. I wish we had more players with his attitude and experience.

For a few cumulative reasons really.

1) Ben has had 4 hamstring injuries in 4 seasons, and it was only really last season where he was available when we needed him. He's not getting any younger and fitter.

2) He's not as good as people make out at centre half. Like the Brantwaite long ball in the first half on Sunday. It was utter schoolboy defending. You cannot be more out of position for a centre half. He's done well to get his first 25 games behind in a 2 man partnership but he is not commanding in the air and he wins no foot races. He's a better LCB, but he is very vulnerable as a LCB in a back four.

3) Unlike this season, he's blocking the path to the 1st team if selected over others. We have Phillips heading back with no UEFA football. We need to prioritise this kid. We also have Vuskovic heading to the UK to assimilate. We can't just throw him out on loan. He needs to be with the first team learning the Ange way.

4) Archie Gray - has more than proven capabilities in the role that Ben plays in defence. One big caveat. We need to sign a LB as I'm not such a fan of Archie there. With Archie around and a new LB, it negates the need for Ben.

5) Ben Davies himself - you're captain of your country and are trying to get through at least one more major international tournament. You need to be true to yourself and playing every week. Spurs have no UEFA football (probably). You'll be scrapping around for game time. Also, the last time that happened, you ended up putting your body through club and country fixtures, got no rest and broke yourself. Get out of that cycle.

Just makes no sense to me why Ben would be a Lilywhite next season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It all makes sense to me. Personally, I'd be wary of keeping Davies, and have a curiosity how good Vuskovic can be alongside Phillips as 4th and 5th choice. Wouldn't be surprised if one of them nudges ahead of Dragusin who could be player traded as well.

I'd be up for letting Sonny go. Buonanotte seems a good addition in the wide areas.

You are directionally correct though. It also shows how the heavy lifting is behind us. It becomes more straightforward from this point.

I'd keep Davies because the squad is very low on experience and he seems a good person to have around that would probably be fine playing a bit part.

I'd like to see Vuskovic geting a loan to a Championship or league 1 club next season to see how he adapts to the physicality of the English game. Hopefully he could then come in to the squad replacing Davies the season after.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Interesting perspective.

Personally would be torn between that kind of approach and a more "here and now, best players we can get that are mid twenties at most".

"Just" 4 signings needed between January and the summer if they're the right profile? I don't disagree...

I think if we instead go for the here and now type players, with our budget that means we can't plug all of the gaps, we can then perhaps get back to the 6th place level and maybe even finish 4th or 5th if one or two of the big clubs have a bad year but won't ever have a chance to properly challenge for the big trophies. If we can again sign young players (though a bit more proven than the last window) next summer then I think perhaps the following year we'd be ready to just bring in two really good players. In fact we could probably then do that from then on for a few years as it is such a young squad.

I caveat all of this though with the likelihood that Romero will go this summer. I can't see him signing a new contract so the club will have to sell while he still has decent value. If he does go then I don't think we can be trying to replace him with a young player, I think we'll need somebody 25+

 

[Finney Is Back]

Here's another question.

We have an amazing bunch of younger players but we know there will be less than we think that will make the grade.

Keeley, Dorrington, Phillips, Vuskovic, Abbott, Hall, Craig, Gray, Bergval, Donley, Devine, Moore, Scarlett, Lankshear, Veliz, Yang

16 names there. How many will still be Spurs owned players by next September?

I think 4, perhaps 5 of them will be sold this summer.

My guess:
Loaned: Keeley, Dorrington, Vuskovic, Abbott, Hall, Donley, Devine, Lankshear.
I still think this above list gets a lot more from playing competitive men's football than youth games and the odd cameo. It is possible that Keeley, Abbot, Devine, Donley and Vuskovic all get loans at a better level than they got this season.

Sold/released: Craig and Scarlett (though I think we might put a buy-back option for Scarlett him just in case)

Kept: Gray, Bergval, Moore, Veliz, Yang, Phillips.
Gray and Bergval will get a decent number of games next year.
Moore will still get a reasonable number of minutes next year and I think a loan for him is risky in terms of the treatment he'd get in the lower leagues.
Phillips I am 50/50 on keep versus loan. It would be useful to have him in the squad next season but his (and perhaps our) future is probably better served playing a whole season at championship level. Perhaps he'll have a loan with a recall clause for January?
I think Veliz may be kept as third choice number 9 (as our game-plan needs somebody physical).
Yang I think will be kept to acclimatise, I don't think he will get many minutes for the first team but playing age-group football in England for a year will probably still benefit him.