Contingency planning : If Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[veryoldspur]

Rubbish.

No it doesn't 'baffle you' you simply don't agree with the perfectly logical rationale behind people who still believe he should remain. Which is fine. Each to their own.

Forget my opinions, forget your love of Ange, just look at his record after the first 10 games of last season. We were losing games hand over fist even before the injuries. We are ultra predictable and soooo easy to play against. I'll say it again, 5 points from 8 games, 1 win in 10, and we are sitting in 12th position. Never mind though, Arsenal up next in the league

 

[thfcsteff]

Forget my opinions, forget your love of Ange, just look at his record after the first 10 games of last season. We were losing games hand over fist even before the injuries. We are ultra predictable and soooo easy to play against.

Forget the numbers and look at the absolute state of rot, decay and average footballing baggage lying around our club that summer. He came in to perform a root and branch overhaul of the football side of the club, alongside apparently Munn and Lange. Absolutely no-one could've expected a fast turnaround, especially starting a tenure without the club's leading goalscorer/shoulders-bearer for the first time in 8 years.

I appreciate we have a vast difference of opinion on this, and I further appreciate that the end result is we both want the mighty THFC winning trophies. But equally, there are several ways to view the current situation...BTW, Ange is the facilliator of system I believe in. It is about the whole not the individual for me.

 

[Baleforce]

I’m not having the homeless thing, we were playing at Wembley. At the time, it was the best football facility in the country, better in every way than the brickhole we were knocking down.

We played brilliantly at Wembley, smashing Madrid, Dortmund, United, the dippers.

It was a boon.

 

[veryoldspur]

I appreciate we have a vast difference of opinion on this, and I further appreciate that the end result is we both want the mighty THFC winning trophies. But equally, there are several ways to view the current situation...BTW, Ange is the facilliator of system I believe in. It is about the whole not the individual for me.

May I take you back to AVB. We played a predictable high line, got caught out al the time, and eventually he got booted out. Throughout the entire episode we had supporters backing him, but when he was removed everyone backed the decision to remove him. The same will happen with Ange. Ange has signed 14 players, yet we are sliding back. I appreciate we have injuries, but we were losing games hand over fist before them. This predictable and non pragmatic approach will never work

 

[billyiddo]

Forget the numbers and look at the absolute state of rot, decay and average footballing baggage lying around our club that summer. He came in to perform a root and branch overhaul of the football side of the club, alongside apparently Munn and Lange. Absolutely no-one could've expected a fast turnaround, especially starting a tenure without the club's leading goalscorer/shoulders-bearer for the first time in 8 years.

I appreciate we have a vast difference of opinion on this, and I further appreciate that the end result is we both want the mighty THFC winning trophies. But equally, there are several ways to view the current situation...BTW, Ange is the facilliator of system I believe in. It is about the whole not the individual for me.

Hmmmm, I feel more than a few of our supporters have the opinion that the Lange led rebuild should be further along after 1.5 seasons than it is - especially wrt squad building...

 

[veryoldspur]

I feel more than a few of our supporters have the opinion that the Lange led rebuild should be further along after 1.5 seasons than it is - especially wrt squad building...

but we aren't even standing still, we are dropping like a stone. With exception to the centre half positions we still have a squad good enough to pick up points, but we aren't

 

[thfcsteff]

Hmmmm, I feel more than a few of our supporters have the opinion that the Lange led rebuild should be further along after 1.5 seasons than it is - especially wrt squad building...

We actually discussed it this week. We concluded that this squad rebuild (and all the variants involved with regards to club-trained, etc) has been addressing issues which existed at the very furthest since the last year of Poch and at the possibly more accepted starting point of the Mourinho-era. It[s actually really interesting to see it laid out. I certainly wouldn't have made deeper sense of it without Milo's work, but once laid out there are pretty compelling reasons as to why we ain't quite there yet. And that's coming from someone who was part of the questioning committee with regards to speed of squad building!

 

[thfcsteff]

May I take you back to AVB. We played a predictable high line, got caught out al the time, and eventually he got booted out. Throughout the entire episode we had supporters backing him, but when he was removed everyone backed the decision to remove him. The same will happen with Ange. Ange has signed 14 players, yet we are sliding back. I appreciate we have injuries, but we were losing games hand over fist before them. This predictable and non pragmatic approach will never work

Ah well. More fool me for thinking you could accept opinions which differ from your own...BTW, comparing what AVB did to what Ange is doing is wholly inaccurate and highly disingenuous.

 

[braineclipse]

but we aren't even standing still, we are dropping like a stone. With exception to the centre half positions we still have a squad good enough to pick up points, but we aren't

It's not just the first choice players missing.

In areas outside of centre back we've been really short of options leading both to fatigue and a lack of tactical options. Even when we've had most of our first choice midfielders and forwards available they haven't been playing with real energy and haven't been anywhere near their best.

We were good enough to pick up points against Saudi Sportswashing Machine imo. The performance was good enough to pick up points. Some degree of luck/variation involved too.

 

[braineclipse]

We actually discussed it this week. We concluded that this squad rebuild (and all the variants involved with regards to club-trained, etc) has been addressing issues which existed at the very furthest since the last year of Poch and at the possibly more accepted starting point of the Mourinho-era. It[s actually really interesting to see it laid out. I certainly wouldn't have made deeper sense of it without Milo's work, but once laid out there are pretty compelling reasons as to why we ain't quite there yet. And that's coming from someone who was part of the questioning committee with regards to speed of squad building!

Any team suffering the number of injuries we have would struggle.

Any team in a phase of building where there's a lot of focus on younger players suffering that number of injuries even more so.

If reports about how the club sees Ange's future the club sees that as well and want to give him time to come through this.

 

[harr1984]

Hmmmm, I feel more than a few of our supporters have the opinion that the Lange led rebuild should be further along after 1.5 seasons than it is - especially wrt squad building...

How many rebuilds have our fans actually seen to know what the trajectory of a responsible and proper rebuild should be like? Our transfer business for as long as I have lived has been all over the place, we actually look to have a proper plan for once and are making some great long term signings but thats going to come with a real dip or two - and the 'yeah but we still have a squad good enough for top 6' argument, I don't think we do when juggling Europe at all but even if that was the case its never as plain sailing and simple as that. Clubs bigger and more successful than us have suffered a big drop off when going through a rebuild, I don't know what on earth makes us so special that we wouldn't. I'm still quietly confident we are on the right path and will see some green shoots before season end....

 

[billyiddo]

We actually discussed it this week. We concluded that this squad rebuild (and all the variants involved with regards to club-trained, etc) has been addressing issues which existed at the very furthest since the last year of Poch and at the possibly more accepted starting point of the Mourinho-era. It[s actually really interesting to see it laid out. I certainly wouldn't have made deeper sense of it without Milo's work, but once laid out there are pretty compelling reasons as to why we ain't quite there yet. And that's coming from someone who was part of the questioning committee with regards to speed of squad building!

Last week's podcast you mean? Looking forward to hearing the discussion.

The bold is what I was getting at with my post tbf

 

[thfcsteff]

Last week's podcast you mean? Looking forward to hearing the discussion.

The bold is what I was getting at with my post tbf

This week's mate, the one which just came out...and yes, I have certainly grumbled in the past. It was very interesting to hear the current situation mapped out.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We actually discussed it this week. We concluded that this squad rebuild (and all the variants involved with regards to club-trained, etc) has been addressing issues which existed at the very furthest since the last year of Poch and at the possibly more accepted starting point of the Mourinho-era. It[s actually really interesting to see it laid out. I certainly wouldn't have made deeper sense of it without Milo's work, but once laid out there are pretty compelling reasons as to why we ain't quite there yet. And that's coming from someone who was part of the questioning committee with regards to speed of squad building!

I’ll check it out at lunchtime and report back

 

[Muttley]

I'm listening to the pod right now.

My thoughts on the squad rebuild is that it is further along than everyone is giving credit for. In some ways, our squad is already much deeper than Poch had when he got 86 points in the league. What I would acknowledge is that the true squad development is currently being disguised by the perfect storm we're going through in the middle of this season.

The reason I feel this way is that the churn is mostly done. Of the old guard, it's probably only Forster, Davies and Reggie left to move on. That's disregarding the backup keepers. After that we pretty much move to natural choice or one-out, one-in. When you start moving on players like Richi or Bissouma, you know you're in a good place. They are fantastic players.

Talking of good places, the chances of some of our U21's progressing into the weekly match day squad is very high. It will also be the reason our squad will seem much bigger next season based of the squad composition rules.

The only nagging doubt in my mind is missing out on UEFA football altogether. We've been planning to have a squad of the size for 4 competitions. If we had another season like last season, we wouldn't keep everyone happy. We'd have to right-size and that might not be good news for the U21s who would be extensively loaned.

 

[Finney Is Back]

May I take you back to AVB. We played a predictable high line, got caught out al the time, and eventually he got booted out. Throughout the entire episode we had supporters backing him, but when he was removed everyone backed the decision to remove him. The same will happen with Ange. Ange has signed 14 players, yet we are sliding back. I appreciate we have injuries, but we were losing games hand over fist before them. This predictable and non pragmatic approach will never work

The same will happen on repeat every 12 to 18 months. It is how our chairman traditionally pulls the wool over our eyes. We’ll get a new manager bounce and then he’ll be sacked when things take a downturn. At some point we have to realise that doing this will not bring us success.

To be fair to the chairman, perhaps he finally has realised?…. Maybe the guy he has chosen to finally back with time and resources is the wrong guy with credentials not really befitting of managing a big PL club like Spurs?… but that’s the manager market we’re operating in now.

Let’s give this man some time to see if he can do something different to the dozen other managers under ENICs reign. At best we do something glorious, at worst we do the same as 24 of the 25 other seasons under ENIC and win nothing. We’re used to that so should be fine to take that gamble.

 

[Finney Is Back]

but we aren't even standing still, we are dropping like a stone. With exception to the centre half positions we still have a squad good enough to pick up points, but we aren't

If only football teams didn’t tend to need centre backs eh?

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Let’s give this man some time to see if he can do something different to the dozen other managers under ENICs reign. At best we do something glorious, at worst we do the same as 24 of the 25 other seasons under ENIC and win nothing. We’re used to that so should be fine to take that gamble.

It's not as simple as that. As unlikely as it seems, multiple finishes in the bottom half will hurt the club's reputation for a while. There's a reason why we signed Andy Booth and Ruel Fox at some point in the second part of the 90s: we weren't an attractive destination.

Having said that, it's catch-22 situation as our rather voracious consumption of managers also seem to have damage the club's reputation, at least in certain circles. So I guess you have to choose the lesser of two evils. It takes a lot of time (or a lot of money) to build back a top six team and while we were never title challengers, we definitely were a top six team not so long ago.

 

[braineclipse]

It's not as simple as that. As unlikely as it seems, multiple finishes in the bottom half will hurt the club's reputation for a while. There's a reason why we signed Andy Booth and Ruel Fox at some point in the second part of the 90s: we weren't an attractive destination.

Having said that, it's catch-22 situation as our rather voracious consumption of managers also seem to have damage the club's reputation, at least in certain circles. So I guess you have to choose the lesser of two evils. It takes a lot of time (or a lot of money) to build back a top six team and while we were never title challengers, we definitely were a top six team not so long ago.

We were a top 6 team last season and were so before our injuries got really bad this season too.

 

[billyiddo]

The same will happen on repeat every 12 to 18 months. It is how our chairman traditionally pulls the wool over our eyes. We’ll get a new manager bounce and then he’ll be sacked when things take a downturn. At some point we have to realise that doing this will not bring us success.

To be fair to the chairman, perhaps he finally has realised?…. Maybe the guy he has chosen to finally back with time and resources is the wrong guy with credentials not really befitting of managing a big PL club like Spurs?… but that’s the manager market we’re operating in now.

Let’s give this man some time to see if he can do something different to the dozen other managers under ENICs reign. At best we do something glorious, at worst we do the same as 24 of the 25 other seasons under ENIC and win nothing. We’re used to that so should be fine to take that gamble.

Or that Munn and/or Lange are having an influence on the decision making at that level