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Contingency planning : If Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

Finney Is Back said:
I don't think there is anyone on here who would happily see us relegated once, let alone twice.

There are just some of us who would like to see us stick with a manager for once when we're going through a bad spell instead of having a 12 to 18 month cycle of changing the manager and not ever looking like we'll do something significant
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So sticking with the manager for the sake of it? There is nothing in this amateur manager that suggests that we should stick by him. By all means I would love to have a manager who we could back if there was a bad patch. At the very least the minimum credentials should be.

Playing players in the right positions
Managing a game
Having more than one way of playing
Knowing how to change a game

The sooner he goes the sooner we can get a proper manager in
 
thfcsteff said:
How many times has this been said? I mean, Mourinho said it, right? We expected Conte to 'prove it' didn't we? At a certain point history is undeniable. BTW, what is the definition of 'doing well'?
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Hmm I never believed that Mourinho was what I described nor Conte. I'm one of those guys who thought we should have never hired either in the first place because they clearly didn't fit our model. I wouldn't base any hire on claims of change or a desire to fit in, instead I would be a hire on their verifiable history, what they have done previously, how they've set their teams up over time. What their philosophy's were before we even began to speak to them. These re all the tings that ENIC never have a grasp on or have understand the relevance. Neither of those coaches or even Nuno (who I had a lot of time for) match my description.

In terms of doing well I would say I'd say that I would expect the coach's mentioned to get this squad performing in at least the top 8 sort of area which is what I would also expect Ange to achieve. My critiques of Ange have less so been about results but instead some inherent problems I see with the system he's trying to play with the quality (and maybe even quantity) of players in our squad.

My thinking is moreso that I don't expect a new coach to want to rip the current squad up and start afresh. I think Ange and the recruitment team have done a good job laying the foundations. There are of course some players that wouldn't be a new guys preference but even under Ange he's going to need fresh blood. There are players that just aren't cut out for the football he's dying to play and I think that would be the case with whomever we brought in next assuming there is some sort of holistic recruitment process. No more jumping from one paradigm to something completely different.
 
Bishop said:
I would be a hire on their verifiable history, what they have done previously, how they've set their teams up over time. What their philosophy's were before we even began to speak to them. These re all the tings that ENIC never have a grasp on or have understand the relevance. Neither of those coaches or even Nuno (who I had a lot of time for) match my description.
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That's exactly why Ange was appointed.
 
thfcsteff said:
How many times has this been said? I mean, Mourinho said it, right? We expected Conte to 'prove it' didn't we? At a certain point history is undeniable. BTW, what is the definition of 'doing well'?
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We didnt have the squad to really effectively implement Conte's preferred system. He actually did very well for a season with players like Emerson playing right wing back and Sessegnon playing left wing back. We started bringing in the players for him. Porro would have been incredible in his system IMO given a bit of time, but we had to work at a pace the club just isn't culturally there to do. Conte always falls out with his clubs for not doing enough in the market. He fell out with Chelsea, he fell out with Inter after they almost bankrupted themselves trying to please him. So it was just never going to work at Spurs in a million years really.
 
Bishop said:
Yeah, I'm fine with Ange's appointment. He is the right sort of coach. Whether he makes it work in the long term is down to him and the support he does or doesn't get from the recruitment group.
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The club have bought the following, some in Ange's tenure and some just before it. All relevant to Ange though.

Venom
Porro
Romero
VDV
Dragusin
Udogie
Gray
Sarr
Maddison
Bergval
Johnson
Yang
Odobert
Solanke

I get the feeling he's happy with this group, along with some from the younger pool like Moore. He also gave Spence a new contract and is really utilising Kulu. He also made Sonny his captain. With the list above, that's 18 players.

The question marks are the following: Forster, Austin, Whiteman, Reggie, Davies, Biss, Bents, Richi. Some for obvious reasons, others are more subtle. Either way, if Biss and Bents are a problem, then you know your problems aren't as bad as prior managers we've had.

Personally, I think Ange has had better support from the recruitment group and chairman than any other manager before him in recent history. He will also continue to get it as well. The club are also ruthlessly shifting deadwood with more intensity than we've seen for a long time.

The direction of travel is good and I hope Ange can show his value once player return at end of January and the transfer window is complete. Then we get 4 full months of seeing what he can do. None of us want 1 game a week either. Let the fun continue.
 
Kompakted said:
We didnt have the squad to really effectively implement Conte's preferred system. He actually did very well for a season with players like Emerson playing right wing back and Sessegnon playing left wing back. We started bringing in the players for him. Porro would have been incredible in his system IMO given a bit of time, but we had to work at a pace the club just isn't culturally there to do. Conte always falls out with his clubs for not doing enough in the market. He fell out with Chelsea, he fell out with Inter after they almost bankrupted themselves trying to please him. So it was just never going to work at Spurs in a million years really.
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Finished 4th in his first season, which was labelled as a "miracle" by some (I'll never let you forget @Steff! 😉) and was fired whilst factually being 4th in the table.

It was never going to be a match made in heaven as he is used to clubs that actually like act big clubs and players that don't hide or crumble when faced with adversity.

People want to make out that he's a clown as he said some home truths about where we're at. His comments ring true whilst he's joint top with Napoli (admittedly I haven't seen enough serie A to know if they're genuine contenders).

Sess was good when fit for Conte tbf and Royal grew into the role, I agree that Porro would have been great but we needed to sign him at the start of his reign, rather than the likes of Sarr / Spence / Veliz*

*I'm not against signing young players, but if your manager's whole MO is needing men who are ready to compete at the highest level, maybe just give him what he needs (or don't hire him).

Back to Ange, I think we're at the stage where we can reasonably give him a period of grace over the next couple of games. But still find whoever was responsible for starting VDV and Romero and sack them, plus lay down a warning in regards to discipline / suspensions.
 
thfcsteff said:
How many times has this been said? I mean, Mourinho said it, right? We expected Conte to 'prove it' didn't we? At a certain point history is undeniable. BTW, what is the definition of 'doing well'?
Click to expand...
Both those managers had a better record than Ange, but people were shouting for their heads. Although Ange at this level has done nothing after the first ten games of his tenure, he continues to tell us how good he is, and unbelievably we still have supporters who believe him
 
Muttley said:
The club have bought the following, some in Ange's tenure and some just before it. All relevant to Ange though.

Venom
Porro
Romero
VDV
Dragusin
Udogie
Gray
Sarr
Maddison
Bergval
Johnson
Yang
Odobert
Solanke

I get the feeling he's happy with this group, along with some from the younger pool like Moore. He also gave Spence a new contract and is really utilising Kulu. He also made Sonny his captain. With the list above, that's 18 players.

The question marks are the following: Forster, Austin, Whiteman, Reggie, Davies, Biss, Bents, Richi. Some for obvious reasons, others are more subtle. Either way, if Biss and Bents are a problem, then you know your problems aren't as bad as prior managers we've had.

Personally, I think Ange has had better support from the recruitment group and chairman than any other manager before him in recent history. He will also continue to get it as well. The club are also ruthlessly shifting deadwood with more intensity than we've seen for a long time.

The direction of travel is good and I hope Ange can show his value once player return at end of January and the transfer window is complete. Then we get 4 full months of seeing what he can do. None of us want 1 game a week either. Let the fun continue.
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We will continue to lose and get more injured players, all as a result of his playground tactics. At some point Levy will pull the trigger, it depends on how far he is prepared to let it go. I recon Easter at best, but hope it's much sooner
 
veryoldspur said:
Both those managers had a better record than Ange, but people were shouting for their heads. Although Ange at this level has done nothing after the first ten games of his tenure, he continues to tell us how good he is, and unbelievably we still have supporters who believe him
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Pine away mate, neither of those over-priced fudging vampires is coming back to suck more cash out of us and fail to deliver! I shouted for Mourimnho's, he was a TERRIBLE appt, but let me guess, yoiu probably loved seeing Poch sacked and that rat sneaking in the back door within 24 hours?

Don't panic, you'll likely have your heart's desire soon because Postecoglu's the unluckiest manager I have seen at oursfor many a year, and you'll doubtless get your 'wish' whatever that actually is. I can't tell. It seems you're more hellbent on repetitve Postecoglu bashing (and by proxy bashing anyone here who does not tow your mono-line) than actually knowing what you want.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Finished 4th in his first season, which was labelled as a "miracle" by some (I'll never let you forget @Steff! 😉) and was fired whilst factually being 4th in the table.

It was never going to be a match made in heaven as he is used to clubs that actually like act big clubs and players that don't hide or crumble when faced with adversity.

People want to make out that he's a clown as he said some home truths about where we're at. His comments ring true whilst he's joint top with Napoli (admittedly I haven't seen enough serie A to know if they're genuine contenders).

Sess was good when fit for Conte tbf and Royal grew into the role, I agree that Porro would have been great but we needed to sign him at the start of his reign, rather than the likes of Sarr / Spence / Veliz*

*I'm not against signing young players, but if your manager's whole MO is needing men who are ready to compete at the highest level, maybe just give him what he needs (or don't hire him).

Back to Ange, I think we're at the stage where we can reasonably give him a period of grace over the next couple of games. But still find whoever was responsible for starting VDV and Romero and sack them, plus lay down a warning in regards to discipline / suspensions.
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It WAS a miracle.

When Ventrone died, I said here it would deeply affect Conte; some people thought I'd lost it.
I was right.
He did lose it. When he had his medical stuff and was trying to come back within days when any sane person would've trusted their staff and recuperated, that was narcissism and insanity!
He was sacked because he effectively talked himself out of a job he realised he didn't want because Levy wasn't going to give him what he wanted. He effectively forced his own sacking - clever really because he got paid! But don't ever believe he didn't want out.
 
thfcsteff said:
Pine away mate, neither of those over-priced fudging vampires is coming back to suck more cash out of us and fail to deliver! I shouted for Mourimnho's, he was a TERRIBLE appt, but let me guess, yoiu probably loved seeing Poch sacked and that rat sneaking in the back door within 24 hours?

Don't panic, you'll likely have your heart's desire soon because Postecoglu's the unluckiest manager I have seen at oursfor many a year, and you'll doubtless get your 'wish' whatever that actually is. I can't tell. It seems you're more hellbent on repetitve Postecoglu bashing (and by proxy bashing anyone here who does not tow your mono-line) than actually knowing what you want.
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Ange isn't the unluckiest manager, he's the luckiest because he still has his job. Just about every pundit realises our injuries are partly down to the way we play and his training methods. Ange's record is far worse than Jose and Conte, but you continue to back him. I can only think you believe him when he keeps telling us how good he is. Ange is like one of those toy robots, it keeps walking into the wall, the wall won't move, but it keeps doing it. Managers at the top level need to be pragmatic and flexible, Ange is stubborn and arrogant. Apart from being a poor manager, I find him a thoroughly vile person
 
thfcsteff said:
It WAS a miracle.

When Ventrone died, I said here it would deeply affect Conte; some people thought I'd lost it.
I was right.
He did lose it. When he had his medical stuff and was trying to come back within days when any sane person would've trusted their staff and recuperated, that was narcissism and insanity!
He was sacked because he effectively talked himself out of a job he realised he didn't want because Levy wasn't going to give him what he wanted. He effectively forced his own sacking - clever really because he got paid! But don't ever believe he didn't want out.
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What are you basing the two bolded assertions on?

You think he was totally fine with the mentality of the club from board all the way down and then losing a friend / member of staff suddenly broke him? I think you're wanting to add a bit of colour to the situation, filling in the blanks with your own details.

Who doesn’t believe he wanted out? He saw the ceiling. He belongs at clubs that don't consider it a miracle to finish 4th. Flagrant misuse of miracle but we'll never agree. Leicester winning the PL was a footballing miracle. Us qualifying in a fancy pants competition to get us some more money to spaff on transfers doesn't scream define intervention to me.
 
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