I
indianspur
Guest
Really? how about these managers are told there are limitations and they agree to go along with them just to get the job, and once in the job them start putting pressure on Levy to spend spend spend?
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Christian Benteke
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
Really? how about these managers are told there are limitations and they agree to go along with them just to get the job, and once in the job them start putting pressure on Levy to spend spend spend?
parklane1
Tony Galvin
No, goddamnit, he did not kick my pet. All I've got at present is a goldfish, anyway.
Sigh. I don't have an 'agenda', and I deeply dislike how casually that term is used on fan forums (not just here) to dissuade often legitimate criticism of a part of the club that some other fans feel is holy, and beyond reproach. Levy's done an average, average job so far, and will likely continue to do so in the future: it bothers me when this average model of governance for a club our size is held up as the shining standard which all clubs should aspire to, an irreproachably good way of running the club that doesn't leave a trail of broken promises, fading dreams, angry managers, and mediocrity in its wake. There was a time when I thought he was revolutionary, as good as the David Deins and Andrea Agnellis of this world: then he hit his glass ceiling, proved that he had the risk-taking panache of a frightened tortoise, proved unwilling to be even a mite philanthropic as a part-owner to boot, and then conducted the shenanigans which saw one of our most talented managers (imo) walk out and then slam the club over the farcical nature of its operations shortly afterward. Needless to say, I changed my mind.
I've been willing to eat my words for a long time now: all I want is for him to back the guy in charge in a real way, so we can return to the sort of thing we had the last time that happened (09/10). I've even mentioned it repeatedly so far this summer: if he is really serious about changing the way we operate in the window, then more power to him, and it's great that he's learned from his mistakes. Hardly a set, unchanging attitude, especially when you consider that, again, I've repeatedly said that I have nothing against the guy personally: I'm sure he's a lovely bloke in person, but he's just been an utterly mediocre chairman so far.
My only 'agenda', if you insist on labelling it that, is pointing out his mistakes in the hope that people acknowledge that they were indeed mistakes, something I believe will help us better understand the way our transfer windows work going forward (if he refuses to change his ways, of course). That's all my 'agenda' is. If that's a problem in your eyes, mate, then GHod help the state of critical discourse online, because it's utterly dead going by that diagnosis.
Surely you must admit that it is at least the most plausible explanation? Given the chain of events?
Listen mate you are entitled to your opinion the same as everyone else, however it seems to me that nearly every post you make includes a dig at Levy and no "war and peace" piece is going to hide that. All I am saying is that if you really want to be taken serious then you need to change the record a little if you want anyone to take what you say as reasonable.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I'd say it's about 50:50, actually.
However, point well made, and I shouldn't have mucked up the Benteke board by repeating the circular arguments I've been using for a year now.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I actually agree with your sentiments when you highlight your view around the job being done being what should be done for a club of our size as a minimum
It's easy for anyone to bring up the likes of Leeds and their failings
How many bring up the ongoing so at Juventus though. Their midfield has cost a combined £11m from what I saw earlier and that includes Pirlo, Pogba, Khadir, Vidal and someone else I can't remember who was class. That's too drawer business for any club and that's come from the top down
It's easy for anyone to bring up the likes of Leeds and their failings
How many bring up the ongoing so at Juventus though. Their midfield has cost a combined £11m from what I saw earlier and that includes Pirlo, Pogba, Khadir, Vidal and someone else I can't remember who was class. That's too drawer business for any club and that's come from the top down
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
That's true. A midfield of Vidal, Pogba, Khedira, Pirlo, Marchisio.....Beppe Marotta did some absolutely stunning work there, along with Agnelli, who chose the right coaches at the right time (Well, okay, not Del Neri, but Conte, and then Allegri: who'd have imagined Massimiliano Allegri would do as well as he did?). Funny thing is, they were and are operating in similar conditions to us (With revenues of just fifty or so million euros more than us as of the publication of the 2015 Deloitte Money League list, and a stadium with just five thousand more seats than WHL).
That's genuine excellence, in my book.
Anyway, back to Benteke: he's a large lump with a questionable work rate, and personally I don't see him being able to fit into Poch's pressing style.
glasgowspur
Andy Thompson
Juve also don't have the sky money so aren't having clubs holding out for a premium. Any club who is approached for a player from PL team see pound signs and are adding a hefty percentage on.That's true. A midfield of Vidal, Pogba, Khedira, Pirlo, Marchisio.....Beppe Marotta did some absolutely stunning work there, along with Agnelli, who chose the right coaches at the right time (Well, okay, not Del Neri, but Conte, and then Allegri: who'd have imagined Massimiliano Allegri would do as well as he did?). Funny thing is, they were and are operating in similar conditions to us (With revenues of just fifty or so million euros more than us as of the publication of the 2015 Deloitte Money League list, and a stadium with just five thousand more seats than WHL).
That's genuine excellence, in my book.
Anyway, back to Benteke: he's a large lump with a questionable work rate, and personally I don't see him being able to fit into Poch's pressing style.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Yet 3 of those players were on a free transfer
milo
Jack L. Jones
Are you suggesting that we should adopt an older players on higher wages strategy?
glasgowspur
Andy Thompson
True, but one, pogba, was shipped out by a PL as not good enough and now to buy him back is over £50m. PL is a basket case when it comes to transfers. If PSG and Real weren't throwing money at hyped players it would look a lot worse.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I'm not suggesting anything other than of the chance comes to get better players in than we have we should do it if we can afford it
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
Not sure that is true. Didn't he refuse to sign anew contract as the terms weren't acceptable or not enough playing time and Fergie decided to throw his usual toys out of pram when a player didn't do what he wanted? Think the Utd spin then kicked in to say he wasn't good enough, in the petulant manner of a jilted lover, but fairly certain they wanted to keep him if they could.
NorwegianSpursFan
Neil Ruddock
I thought the story was that he demanded a first team spot, and Fergie told him to do one. He might have been right that he deserved a place, but whoever advised him to put an ultimatum against Fergie can't have payed attention the last 25 years.
glasgowspur
Andy Thompson
I may have it wrong, my memory isn't great and j don't pay much attention of other clubs.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'd welcome us bringing in one top class, experienced player. I think that the team would benefit from it, particularly of they were a leader but we have to recognise that our business model is based on buying, developing and improving young players. Selling them on for profit and then reinvesting this money. The approach Juve have taken would not fit with this and would massively increase our wage bill.
Bullet
Colin Calderwood
A year? Feels much longer than that fella.
If we can pick out a handful of better examples, that means there is a boatload worse than us.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Yeah it would but it would also put us in the top 4 which generates more revenue
I like our model... In fact I kinda love the fact that we're doing it without a benefactor
But we need to do more than just stand still
I
indianspur
Guest
but that is the best we can do considering our finances and what we are up against. To finish 5th is like winning the league ahead of the other 15 teams below us. We are the best of the rest. The top 4 are in another stratosphere
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Sorry but as Liverpool above shown and we above done previously, that's not the case
The right players, a bit of luck and good management and we have a great chance
United finished 6 points ahead of us last season after spending £150m. The money is important but isn't the be all... Having the right players is
My original comment was highlighting that Juventus have a top drawer midfield for £11m in transfer fees, which means you can afford to pay more in wages.
Their whole midfield cost less than Poorlinho for example. Yes their wages are higher but that's 5 players who are all better... So should command higher wages surely!!!
I
indianspur
Guest
even if on the odd occasion we or Liverpool, or Everton manage to miraculously finish in the top 4 all that happens is that the bigger fish come in and nick our best players and we are back to square one. Liverpool lost Suarez, look what happened to them. Weve had Modric and Bale leave and never really recovered. Now the sharks are circling for Lloris, Kane and Bentaleb. Thats why i say that atm standing still is quite an achievement.
I know what you are saying about having the right players, good management, a bit of luck and anything is possible. I agree, but putting all those together whilst selling our best players and having to adequately replace them makes it really difficult.
The Juve example about how well they spend their money is a good one. I do hope that with the management and scouting team we have put together can give us an edge in player purchasing. Again, to get anywhere above where we are now, we literally have no room to make mistakes with transfers in.