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Black Lives Matter

SpurMeUp said:
If there was a significant physical advantage to being black, why are there not more black players? The remuneration on offer means more black players would be playing if they had a significant advantage.
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there are more black players! thats my whole point, and what the data (that you love so much) shows
SpurMeUp said:
We also know that footballers come from poorer backgrounds often, playing on the streets, and black people are on average poorer in the UK. Sport often offers a dream of success.

The biggest variables, as with cricket, are cultural.
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i dont doubt that cultural factors are huge. i'm merely suggesting that significant physical factors (that can often be determined by race) are not being considered because of the culture that we live in.

how would you define poor? once you've defined this, have a look at the demographics of "poor" white and black populations - i suspect you will still see an overwhelming bias towards more black sportsmen than white.
 
Wilheldiva said:
there are more black players! thats my whole point, and what the data (that you love so much) shows
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You said that black peoples physical differences make them faster or stronger of whatever it is. I said to you, if that difference was significant there would be more than the 30% of black people playing in the PL, because the money on offer would naturally lead to more and more black people playing - if there was a significant advantage. You came back and said "there are more". Again simply relaying data.


Wilheldiva said:
i dont doubt that cultural factors are huge. i'm merely suggesting that significant physical factors (that can often be determined by race) are not being considered because of the culture that we live in.

how would you define poor? once you've defined this, have a look at the demographics of "poor" white and black populations - i suspect you will still see an overwhelming bias towards more black sportsmen than white.
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Go watch some more vids about how to divide people by race. It's clearly of great value and enhancing your life.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yes there are differences between races. But different races are more similar than they appear (or are often treated). Cultural variables are far far more important in determining why black people play sports, or why Indians play cricket etc. As with Yougslavia, Irland or Scotland with Protestants and Catholics, there are no real physiological genetic differences to these different groups. The differences are cultural and imagined.
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im not talking about human or moral values (yes, i agree we're all equal and theres no difference on this front).

im talking about how physical difference between races affect atheletes' journeys to professional careers. whilst there may be no difference in intelligence amongst white and black populations in the broader population - if football is a game of "intelligence" (as i mentioned previously, i dont like this phrase in this context), physical attributes, and technique - and you naturally have an advantage in one of these categories, it means that you are more likely to reach the top of the profession even if you dont quite excel in the other areas. conversely,it also means that if you are naturally deficient in one of these categories, you will need to make up for it somehow to compete at the same level as others.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You said that black peoples physical differences make them faster or stronger of whatever it is. I said to you, if that difference was significant there would be more than the 30% of black people playing in the PL, because the money on offer would naturally lead to more and more black people playing - if there was a significant advantage. You came back and said "there are more". Again simply relaying data.
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why would there be more than 30% playing in the pl? are you suggesting that all black people are faster and stronger than all white people?

you need to calm down a bit mate - you've got blinkers on and therefore you arent able to fully comprehend what my point is atm - maybe come back in an hour after you've calmed down.

SpurMeUp said:
Go watch some more vids about how to divide people by race. It's clearly of great value and enhancing your life.
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no-one here is dividing anyone by race. it does no-one any good to ignore difference that exist between different populations. we should embrace these and accept everyone for who they are.

at this rate, we'll get to a stage where even doctors arent allowed to prescribe general advice based of ethnicity due to fear of being cancelled. the fact is differences exist, and accepting these is in everyones interests.
 
@SpurMeUp

Regardless of ethnicity, would you accept that a player who is faster/stronger/fitter requires slightly less mental/technical attributes to compete at the same level as someone whose skillset is more distributed towards mental and technical skills?
 
Wilheldiva said:
no, but we need to accept that there are differences between races before making horrific policy decisions at political and cultural levels that could have catastrophic consequences.
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So you do not believe in eugenics? I mean if you do then we can have that conversation and discuss it, it seems like you do but correct me if I am inferring incorrectly?
 
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LutonSpurs said:
So you do not believe in eugenics? I mean if you do then we can have that conversation and discuss it, it seems like you do but correct me if I am inferring incorrectly?
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how on earth have you come to that conclusion?

i've merely pointed out that people are different, and whilst these differences could lead to varied values at a sporting level - i have pointed out numerous times that this does not give anyone any additional value as a human.

an unlucky commentator is going to be falsely accused of racism soon, simply by complimenting a black players' physical skillset - its our job as a society to stop such madness from taking over us (whilst still addressing genuine racism). and i say this as part of the bame community.
 
Wilheldiva said:
how on earth have you come to that conclusion?

i've merely pointed out that people are different, and whilst these differences could lead to varied values at a sporting level - i have pointed out numerous times that this does not give anyone any additional value as a human.

an unlucky commentator is going to be falsely accused of racism soon, simply by complimenting a black players' physical skillset - its our job as a society to stop such madness from taking over us (whilst still addressing genuine racism). and i say this as part of the bame community.
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I'd assumed you were going in that direction and am sorry that I got it wrong. Normally when people start the eugenics convo they start with physicality and then go to IQ. As I said I assumed we were going there. I am glad we aren't.
 
well this has taken a dark turn...

Look, it's not that difficult. Drogba was renowned for his 'power' and 'strength' and yet rarely was it ever discussed just how skillful he was. Certain tropes exist. Black players are powerful and strong, white players are skillful and technical. Those exist in journalists/commentators framework for years, it's unconcious bias but it should be called out.

This was massively prevelent when United signed Lukaku and Chelsea signed Morata:

European football journalist Mina Rzouki told BBC 5 Live: “I would pay £20m or £30m more if I had to and I would bring in Morata. That is because I would always prefer an intelligent player in my team. Even if he doesn’t score as many goals, even if he doesn’t do whatever he needs to.”

Paul Merson previously claimed the striker made the right move in joining United instead of Chelsea, as he’s “not bright enough to play with Eden Hazard and Cesc Fabregas."

When manager of Emirates Marketing Project, Manuel Pellegrini took to press conferences to defend Toure against the label of being “lazy”, after being questioned by a journalist, he was quick to provide facts to dispel the myths.

“If you review the numbers of Yaya, each game he runs as much as every teammate,” he argued,

Pogba is one of the most skillful players in the League. Here's how Danny Murphy described him:
“What he brings you is this powerful presence in the opposition box,” Danny Murphy said. “What he’s best at is using his athleticism, his power… he’s nice and fit, and strong.”

No one is saying white players do not possess those traits too, or black players can't be skillful. However, the issue is when using adjectives to describe said players, the common pitfulls and stereotypes prevail, which is more frequent on black people with negative stereotypes.

Outside of sports, just look at terminology describing expatriates vs immigrants in every day media and journalism.

A UK/US white person moving to Dubai is an expat.

An Emirati brown person moving to London is an immigrant.
 
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Just seen something curious pop up where the actor Terry Crews has made what seems to be a very uncontroversial statement that we must be careful that blacklivesmatter doesn't morph into blacklivesbetter.
And he seems to be getting stick for it. For, as a black man, saying that equality is what he's concerned with and that he doesn't want any air of superiority or special exalted treatment to creep into a noble cause down the line.

Which reminded me of this laughable clip:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1276682947895197697
 
We did genetics as part of sports science and i seem to remember it was a genetic favt based around muscle fibres that made certain races faster, something to do with fast twitch fibres (forgive me as it was along time ago)

That’s why Jamaica are those with Afro Caribbean heritage make great sprinters.

I look at the argument about Indians in sport, the Asian population has an obsession with cricket, it’s a huge obsession, I played for years so trust me. There isn’t the same desire to play football, the whole argument to get more Asians into football isn’t about prejudice in my mind, it’s changing a mindset that doesn’t really want to change. It isn’t a reflection of societies problems because there are no Indian superstar footballers.
 
JerusalemMan said:
Just seen something curious pop up where the actor Terry Crews has made what seems to be a very uncontroversial statement that we must be careful that blacklivesmatter doesn't morph into blacklivesbetter.
And he seems to be getting stick for it. For, as a black man, saying that equality is what he's concerned with and that he doesn't want any air of superiority or special exalted treatment to creep into a noble cause down the line.

Which reminded me of this laughable clip:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1276682947895197697
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The children think their right all the time. The children that use that awful teletext thing are in an echo chamber and egg each other on.
 
Grays_1890 said:
That clip goes all the way back to what I said and sad again....noice, noice, noice....the screaming and shouting against calm black men who want to engage, it’s why the message is lost.
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There is a saying that sums it up. " Empty vessels make the most noise".
 
Sport participation for most is nature vs nurture.

At uni many years ago it was all about cricket the asian colleagues used to chat about on my degree and incidentally sport in general was not encouraged as a career by the parents.

What was more revealing and this may be controversial was the disparaging opinions of Hindus towards Muslims. One of the girls on my course, a quite beautiful woman from a high caste(Brahmin) was more prejudiced than any white person could possibly be towards another section of society.
I won’t repeat the things I heard but it was an eye opener that white vs black debate is no where near the animosity on this scale.
 
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