Berba, Modric, Rafa, Bale, Kane, Sonny...?

[thfcsteff]

Romero is a world cup winner was in serie team of the year. Messi saying best defender in the world.

Yes, but does he carry the same 'aura' as, say, a Klinsmann, a Ginola, a Berbatov, a Rafa, a Bale, a Kane, a Son (I'd even include prime era Dele without a moment's hesitation)?
Looking back over the decades, we've had Gilzean, Hoddle, Waddle, Gazza...creators, goalscorrers, maverick talents...who is next?

 

[thfcsteff]

What's interesting about your list is that it doesn't include a GK or defender. It's a bit like the Ballon D'Or.

I've been so happy with Hugo, Walker, Jan, Toby, Romero, VDV etc. Equally important as those names above, but clearly there is nothing sexy about playing their position.

I think (in fairness) the spirit of the post is reflected in the list.
Alfie Conn's hair and all that...Waddle's mullet and gorgeous left-foot...Hoddle's feathere Essex do and superb pins...Ginola's flowing locks and consistent light through the darkness...Klinsmann's glorious dives...Gazza's overall mentalness and genius...

What you're talking aboiut certainly deserves it's own thread...

 

[thfcsteff]

I think there is a real dearth of marquee players now because the game is so “coached to death”
All the players mentioned were players who played their way so to speak
We have gone through the phase of the manager being the most important focal point
You have salah at pool …
Palmer at Chelsea
Cherki may be that man at city but haaland is the figure head now
Saka at Arsenal (that’s a low bar IMO because he hasn’t won anything of note)
United have no one today
It’s just how the game has changed IMO

Have to say I think this is an excellent point.

 

[thfcsteff]

Perhaps part of it is that they don't? Kane, van der Vaart, Bale and others were all underestimated and to some extent derided. I think the redemption arc / someone fulfilling or even outgrowing their potential suits Tottenham as a club. As opposed to buying ready made and then doing what's expected of them.

Another fine point...maybe it is someone like Williams-Barnett?

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes, but does he carry the same 'aura' as, say, a Klinsmann, a Ginola, a Berbatov, a Rafa, a Bale, a Kane, a Son (I'd even include prime era Dele without a moment's hesitation)?
Looking back over the decades, we've had Gilzean, Hoddle, Waddle, Gazza...creators, goalscorrers, maverick talents...who is next?

Berba didn't have an aura when he joined. Neither did bale or son. Rafa and klinnsmann yes. Ginola level lower.
Kane people didn't think he'd make it.

In 20 years we might be looking at udogie, gray, bergvall, tel, odobert... in the same light as we look back on bale, walker, kane... we might not.

Hindsight.

I'd love to buy a player we can all get really excited about now. Not sure who that could be. Rafa and klinnsmann were relatively cheap as was ginola. Today saudi would snap them up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Have to say I think this is an excellent point.

Let’s flip it
What one player would you want as a spurs player if you could have anyone
For me it would be palmer… he just okays the way I want football played
There are probably better players but he is just that man for me
Cherki may well be that player at city this summer
I think Kudus may well step up over the next 18 months I hope

 

[thfcsteff]

Berba didn't have an aura when he joined. Neither did bale or son. Rafa and klinnsmann yes. Ginola level lower.
Kane people didn't think he'd make it.

In 20 years we might be looking at udogie, gray, bergvall, tel, odobert... in the same light as we look back on bale, walker, kane... we might not.

Hindsight.

I'd love to buy a player we can all get really excited about now. Not sure who that could be. Rafa and klinnsmann were relatively cheap as was ginola. Today saudi would snap them up.

It's an interesting response. I I can't dance, yet the 'hindsight' comment is worth inspection. Is it 'hindsight' when we look at the likes of Cliff Jones? Jimmy Greaves? Martin Peters? The GREAT Alan Gilzean? Martin Shivers? Glenn? We've always had players of that 'aura'.

Of course none of us know what the future holds, but I would be prepared to edge out here and say that of the players you've listed, only Bergvall has the 'full package potential' to be that type of presence. Maybe Tel, but I still think he and Odobert are not personalities in that sense? Archie Gray looks to me the closest I've seen to a Perryman-type figure at the club since Stevie (and that's high-praise)...

 

[thfcsteff]

Let’s flip it
What one player would you want as a spurs player if you could have anyone
For me it would be palmer… he just okays the way I want football played
There are probably better players but he is just that man for me
Cherki may well be that player at city this summer
I think Kudus may well step up over the next 18 months I hope

Agreed!
Cole Palmer is our sort of player!

 

[Lilbaz]

It's an interesting response. I I can't dance, yet the 'hindsight' comment is worth inspection. Is it 'hindsight' when we look at the likes of Cliff Jones? Jimmy Greaves? Martin Peters? The GREAT Alan Gilzean? Martin Shivers? Glenn? We've always had players of that 'aura'.

Of course none of us know what the future holds, but I would be prepared to edge out here and say that of the players you've listed, only Bergvall has the 'full package potential' to be that type of presence. Maybe Tel, but I still think he and Odobert are not personalities in that sense? Archie Gray looks to me the closest I've seen to a Perryman-type figure at the club since Stevie (and that's high-praise)...

I'm talking when we bought them. Jimmy greaves was a record transfer for a reason.

Berba? Modric? Bale? Walker? Son? 90% of fans had never heard of them before we were in for them. They got the aura after we bought them. Not before.

That is why the aura is hindsight.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm talking when we bought them. Jimmy greaves was a record transfer for a reason.

Berba? Modric? Bale? Walker? Son? 90% of fans had never heard of them before we were in for them. They got the aura after we bought them. Not before.

That is why the aura is hindsight.

I completely disagree, aura is not hindsight whatsoever. The aura is there, it takes a good scouting network to spot it and nurture it alongside the talent. Anyone looking at Berba entering the building could see the vibe he had. I knew the moment I saw Luka play for us that he was going to be a dominant player in any game he played over time; he 'had it'. Dele. Had 'it'. Bale? THAT was a phenomenon and I would agree the anomaly (along with Kane who bludgeoned his way in via pure hard work). But usually, you can see that aura and 'difference' if you're both open and willing to see it. I always thought Hazard had 'it' too...Cole Palmer has 'it'...so no, aura is not hindsight IMO.

 

[Lilbaz]

I completely disagree, aura is not hindsight whatsoever. The aura is there, it takes a good scouting network to spot it and nurture it alongside the talent. Anyone looking at Berba entering the building could see the vibe he had. I knew the moment I saw Luka play for us that he was going to be a dominant player in any game he played over time; he 'had it'. Dele. Had 'it'. Bale? THAT was a phenomenon and I would agree the anomaly (along with Kane who bludgeoned his way in via pure hard work). But usually, you can see that aura and 'difference' if you're both open and willing to see it. I always thought Hazard had 'it' too...Cole Palmer has 'it'...so no, aura is not hindsight IMO.

Lol. I remember the first 6 months of both son and berba, fans not thinking they were good enough. Not even mentioning bale. Modric wasn't deemed strong enough to play in the middle.

 

[monkeybarry]

The point isn't how ready made they were, the fact is we had a steady conveyor belt of them coming through one way or another, and then nothing.

Kane only left two seasons ago. Son was still the talisman after he left.
So it's only one season.
This season.....ask the question in October

 

[Lilbaz]

Kane only left two seasons ago. Son was still the talisman after he left.
So it's only one season.
This season.....ask the question in October

Cometh the hour...

 

[monkeybarry]

Cometh the hour...

....cometh the Bryan Gil!

 

[thfcsteff]

Lol. I remember the first 6 months of both son and berba, fans not thinking they were good enough. Not even mentioning bale. Modric wasn't deemed strong enough to play in the middle.

Glad you're laughing. So am I. Shows you how many fans really don't see/sense/know these things...

I stand by my point and still wholly disagree that 'aura' is a product of hindsight. Again, if the professionals are good at their jobs, they can see/sense it early...

 

[thfcsteff]

@Lilbaz's comment on aura being (in their view) a product of hindsight, and my assertiuon that professionals can sense it/feel it, led me to thinking more about @Bedfordspurs comment about the nature of modern football with regards to how the game has 'developed'...it broiught me to wonder if there is a hard truth in the fact that data & economic signings have absolutely taken over football. I think Osimhen is an interesting example. The 70s/80s and even 90s were littered with players considered to be a bit, well, tougher to manage, yet they were still signed primarily to accommodate their exceptional talents. These days the game is certainly more 'system based' and requires a higher degree of systemic knowledge and versatility on the player's part. We saw it with Defoe and Dele, when both were actually encouraged/coached to modify their explosively/instinctual sparks in order to become more 'complete' players; perhaps there is truth in debating whether such players as Berba will ever have a place in football? Joao Felix was said to be better than Ronaldo, yet he is punting about in average places because he cannot be anything other than what he is?

I think it's a really interesting discussion...we're sort of back at intersection between romance and beauty versus pragmatism and reality. Maybe there's too much money in football to gamble on strategies which can easily fail? Which makes last May even more extraordinary for the fine line it walked...

 

[Lilbaz]

Glad you're laughing. So am I. Shows you how many fans really don't see/sense/know these things...

I stand by my point and still wholly disagree that 'aura' is a product of hindsight. Again, if the professionals are good at their jobs, they can see/sense it early...

Ok. For the current crop i think at least 2 of odobert, gray, begvall, moore, donley and tel will be class. Baring fitness and mentality. If udogie can stay fit him too.
Gray most likely.

I really like paz also. Just from glimpses.