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Ben Davies
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
Interesting that you choose successful passes as a better indicator over tackles won and lost that Rose was superior in. But this isnt worth debating because with stats you need context ie Davies has played more minutes, who has the more defensive work to do on average etc....
I can't remember who said it but an ex pro defender said something quite insightful about a defender that is always making tackles is a poor defender, as he's always lunging in as he hasn't read the game and got his positioning all wrong. He said the tackle is a defenders last resort and if you're having to commit to one you've almost always already lost the dual.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
I feel the same. I think Rose has higher highs and lower lows, you average them out and get Ben Davies.
I haven't seen enough of Davies but those stats suggest he has decent potential, and reinforces my opinion that Rose is a decent player with some obvious flaws that arent beyond repair. We all know stats dont tell a whole story but still a decent indicator IMO...
I can kind of understand where he's coming from but I cant help but disagree - making a tackle doesnt mean you're lunging in or being wreckless in anyway....
Rorschach
Ricky Villa
To my eyes Rose doesn't play the position well at all. IMO he plays the LB position like a winger, a guy doing a job. He just doesn't have the innate desire to stop goals or goal chances that all good defenders seem to have, and is frequently caught ambling back from forward positions when a move breaks down. That one flaw means he shouldn't be in our team and why almost any natural LB would do better for us.
He does get forward well, just a shame he cant cross....
I tend to agree with you that a reliance on stats can be misleading.
But since the stats were originally posted to promote the case for Ben Davies over Danny Rose, it only seemed fair to ask for more pertinent stats based on games or minutes played rather than overall figures. And these more pertinent stats undeniably paint a very different picture.
Exactly.
The issue here isn't whether or not Danny Rose is any good. It's whether or not Ben Davies is any better.
I'm not thrilled about this one.
Just before last season began i said that you don't finish top 4 with players like Rose and Townsend as players for such key positions in your starting eleven.
Whilst i would be pleased therefore to see Rose moved to a reserve position, i didn't exactly have in mind that he would be replaced by someone of equivalent standard.
Let's see how it goes, but he's a bit Kyle Naughton for my liking!
Just before last season began i said that you don't finish top 4 with players like Rose and Townsend as players for such key positions in your starting eleven.
Whilst i would be pleased therefore to see Rose moved to a reserve position, i didn't exactly have in mind that he would be replaced by someone of equivalent standard.
Let's see how it goes, but he's a bit Kyle Naughton for my liking!
Yiddo
Jack Jull
Because its a case of 1 versus the other and who is the best. It's not about who is the best its about who can do the job thats asked of them.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Not very informative then...
If we didn't already know that Davies at least has decent potential I don't know what's going on.
So it's about whose best for our team? I think that's part of the discussion here...
If one can do the job that's being asked better than the other surely that's relevant.
Maltese Falcon
Niko Kranjcar
In that case, I fail to see what the fuss about Sandro is all about because his game is all about tackling (and bookings!)
Yiddo
Jack Jull
Yes it is but Stats cannot tell you that. Swansea and Spurs under Tim did not play the same way as Poch so who's to say them stats are relevant to the current situation?
It has recently as he's gone down a level imo and he's lunging for stuff and giving away free kicks he's not as sharp as he was. His game used to be about interceptions positioning and tactical discipline
You could argue that Rose has a better team in front of him so should be exposed left often or you could look at who the errors came against e.g. were they all against Aguero running at full pace or against relegation fodder suggesting a lack of concentration etc.
Many many variables and that's why stats on their own don't give the full picture.
Yiddo
Jack Jull
Eh?
The stats were originally posted in order to make the case for Davies. And one or two posters subsequently commented favourably about him as a result.
But the point is that those first stats were pretty meaningless. They only became meaningful (to the extent that stats can actually be meaningful) once they were expressed as a per game measurement.
Edit: Actually, now I'm really confused! I've just realised that it was you who posted the final set of stats. So I've either completely misunderstood your point or I'm completely lost!
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