B Teams

[Neymar]

I don't know how often it happens but I have heard stories of English clubs offering jobs or buying houses for parents in order to get their children within their catchment area.

ive heard of this too. i also know someone who spent a good 3 months travelling down to portsmouth a couple times a week from wimbledon (south london), before he eventually moved there (as per the "laws"). so yeah, i accept that the laws are subject to quite a bit of flexibility. but nonetheless it does somewhat "help" to stop clubs moving children across the country.

for the most part, the players in our u16 (and younger) setups are london boys. In barcelona, they are genuinely from all over spain. and now it seems from all over the world too, hence their "ban".

one reason i think players should be allowed to move across the country or even between nations however is due to cases like leo messi. under current uefa rules, messi would not have been able to move to barca (not that it seems to stop them anyway). and perhaps without treatment, his dreams of being a footballer wouldve been crushed.

 

[johnola]

I support this proposal but b teams will have to comprise of english or welsh players only.
I also think all kids should be given their own ball
I also think q good idea is togive kids

 

[Neymar]

If Premier League clubs can't produce young talent by lending them out to the likes of Barnet, Colchester and Swindon they certainly aren't going to produce any more by having 11 players playing together against Barnet, Colchester and Swindon.

spot on.

one positive for those who are against the B teams is that i cant see too many clubs being able to run B teams in the football league long term. the financial cost of running a B team in the football league is going to be immense.

clubs wont be putting their strongest reserve team in the B team (given that it can only reach league 1). therefore the best kids, will be on loan to weaker epl sides or champion sides. a la rose to sunderland or townsend and carroll to qpr. given that the best kids/reserves will not be playing the B team, i think most epl reserve sides would struggle to stay in league 1 or 2.

at the moment, i can only see chelsea's reserve side staying in league 1 with ease. and obviously if Emirates Marketing Project keep investing in young players from around the globe, they will be fine also. but for us, man utd and arsenal, i think a massive increase in spending would be needed to be able to maintain league 1 status with our B teams. i suspect this would happen for these 3 teams if B teams were introduced.

but i think every other epl club would struggle to fund a football league campaign for their B teams given that teams like villa are spending comparable amounts on first teams purchases to what chelsea spend to buy kids.

 

[Neymar]

I support this proposal but b teams will have to comprise of english or welsh players only.
I also think all kids should be given their own ball
I also think q good idea is togive kids

i havent made my mind up whether im for or against this proposal. but i think it would be a massive mistake if we excluded foreign players.

i dont think a 18-21 yr old playing league 1 football for a B team has much hope to become a world class player for england in the long term. he needs to be playing much higher up at that age if he has any worldclass potential. but, for a club like chelsea, who will no doubt be able to keep their B team in league 1, they could use it as a platform to give a 16/17 yr old a few games at that level, if they think he has genuine potential. but to be able to give this english 16 yr old a few league 1 games, they need their B team to be in league 1. and if they only used english youth kids, they wouldnt be able to stay in league 1. thats why letting foreign kids play in B teams too is vital imo.

 

[braineclipse]

If Premier League clubs can't produce young talent by lending them out to the likes of Barnet, Colchester and Swindon they certainly aren't going to produce any more by having 11 players playing together against Barnet, Colchester and Swindon.

How can you possibly know that?

The opposition to B-teams elsewhere in Europe isn't of a higher standard than that I would imagine, but those clubs and those associations apparently do see a benefit to those games.

 

[milo]

spot on.

one positive for those who are against the B teams is that i cant see too many clubs being able to run B teams in the football league long term. the financial cost of running a B team in the football league is going to be immense.

clubs wont be putting their strongest reserve team in the B team (given that it can only reach league 1). therefore the best kids, will be on loan to weaker epl sides or champion sides. a la rose to sunderland or townsend and carroll to qpr. given that the best kids/reserves will not be playing the B team, i think most epl reserve sides would struggle to stay in league 1 or 2.

at the moment, i can only see chelsea's reserve side staying in league 1 with ease. and obviously if Emirates Marketing Project keep investing in young players from around the globe, they will be fine also. but for us, man utd and arsenal, i think a massive increase in spending would be needed to be able to maintain league 1 status with our B teams. i suspect this would happen for these 3 teams if B teams were introduced.

but i think every other epl club would struggle to fund a football league campaign for their B teams given that teams like villa are spending comparable amounts on first teams purchases to what chelsea spend to buy kids.

I believe I am right in saying that there will be a £2m per season fee for Premier League clubs who want a B team in the league.

 

[Neymar]

i wonder if clubs who have B teams in the football league will also have a few senior players (25-33) in these teams. i dont mean putting first teams players in there. i mean players who are genuinely league 1/2 standard with no hope of playing any higher. these players could help the younger players out and also would be some of the better players with experience in these leagues, and therefore help the B team to maintain their football league status.

i think having these players could be potenitally necessary. but would obviously be another cost in running successful B teams.

 

[Neymar]

I believe I am right in saying that there will be a £2m per season fee for Premier League clubs who want a B team in the league.

ah cool i didnt know about this. is this fee adjusted depending on which league your B team is in? and is it still £2m if the B team drops to the conference?

 

[milo]

ah cool i didnt know about this. is this fee adjusted depending on which league your B team is in? and is it still £2m if the B team drops to the conference?

I don't know. I had assumed that B teams would be entered into the conference and it is up to them to get promoted from there. What I have read so far has been a little light on detail on this. If the £2m was redistributed to other clubs in the leagues with B teams in them, that could be quite beneficial.

 

[milo]

Sorry, I have not been paying attention (or at least had forgotten the details). The proposal is to create a new third division made up of ten teams from the conference and ten B teams and the B teams could get promoted or relegated from there but not go any higher than League one or two divisions below their A team.

 

[jts1882]

Sorry, I have not been paying attention (or at least had forgotten the details). The proposal is to create a new third division made up of ten teams from the conference and ten B teams and the B teams could get promoted or relegated from there but not go any higher than League one or two divisions below their A team.

Sounds like you are paying more attention than most.

The initial level of a third division above the conference seems too low to be that useful. Promotion will help it be better in the future, but I wonder if the League One limit is too low to be useful. Even if it is a stepping stone for younger players, it doesn't help those just not quite ready for the PL first teams. These players need PL or at least Championship level competition.

 

[milo]

Sounds like you are paying more attention than most.

The initial level of a third division above the conference seems too low to be that useful. Promotion will help it be better in the future, but I wonder if the League One limit is too low to be useful. Even if it is a stepping stone for younger players, it doesn't help those just not quite ready for the PL first teams. These players need PL or at least Championship level competition.

I agree. I think some small changes to the loan system could probably achieve the same or better outcome without undermining the integrity of the lower leagues.

 

[T-C]

I agree. I think some small changes to the loan system could probably achieve the same or better outcome without undermining the integrity of the lower leagues.

The new proposals also suggest strategic loan arrangements between clubs which would allow up to 8 players to be loaned to the same club.

Most of the arguements I've seen against B teams could be directed at this idea too. Woukd it be any fairer to have 8 your Spurs players lining up for Swindon in League 1? 8*players with no connection to that team, potentially with Spurs coaches at their training ground.

 

[braineclipse]

Sounds like you are paying more attention than most.

The initial level of a third division above the conference seems too low to be that useful. Promotion will help it be better in the future, but I wonder if the League One limit is too low to be useful. Even if it is a stepping stone for younger players, it doesn't help those just not quite ready for the PL first teams. These players need PL or at least Championship level competition.

The initial integration time is to be expected for a change like this.

League One will be helpful I think. Similar level to other countries with a similar system in place where the clubs seem to use that system.

Part of the big problem with the current loan system is finding the right loan for the players. Look at Townsend's loan career as an example. After a season or two proving themselves in League One I think a lot of the youngsters would be in a much better position to get the right Championship and PL loans. Many of the loaning clubs simply won't know enough about the players they take one loan, often it seems to be "just a punt". Having had a chance to see them in action in League One will change that.

Again Townsend, clearly someone who could make a PL impact, but the only way he got that PL loan that was right for him was because Redknapp took the QPR job and knew about him and his ability. If not for that he would probably still be looking for the right loan to some Championship club. Quite possibly ending up playing under a manager that didn't care about him, rate him, or know much about him.

We've been smart when working with Swindon I think. The potential in a B-team at a similar level is much higher.

 

[jts1882]

The new proposals also suggest strategic loan arrangements between clubs which would allow up to 8 players to be loaned to the same club.

Most of the arguments I've seen against B teams could be directed at this idea too. Woukd it be any fairer to have 8 your Spurs players lining up for Swindon in League 1? 8*players with no connection to that team, potentially with Spurs coaches at their training ground.

I'm not sure the same criticisms apply. The B teams would parachute in about ten new competitors below League two. These teams will block the progress of Conference clubs or will rise and displace some existing FL clubs.

With the strategic loan system there are no new clubs. It just provides an alternative model for how the PL clubs run themselves. They have the choice of continuing as they are or they can adopt a partnership. To be fair, perhaps there should be rules on who pays the wages, e.g. the FL club should pay some of the wages. Even if there is some subsidising of the clubs taking loans, it is better than being replaced by a new team fully paid for by the higher level clubs.

 

[milo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27707184

 

[jts1882]

"The loan system as it is now works better - look at Tom Cleverley. "

:lol: