AVB - I want him out now!

[parklane1]

Been away for a few days and i come back and read what is possibly the biggest knee jerk thread i have read on here. Madness.

 

[Rossi22]

When we hire a coach that is not only talented but believes and respects the traditions of the club and the fans.

We've had Harry who was a good coach, someone who had us playing in the club's traditions but he didn't respect the fans or the club he was in it for himself and when he thought the Englsnd job was his he stopped doing his job and threw 3rd place away.

His retort was our fans were stupid and this is as good as it gets. You could tell he had contempt for us.

Now we have AVB, a man who openly admits he doesn't want to be a manager for long, he wants to get to the top quickly then go off and race cars.

We're a stepping stone to rebuild his reputation and he's playing it safe. It's about him again. Another 'safe' season from him and the PSG or Barca job will be his.

He has criticised the fans openly again. You can tell he feels he knows best and is cleverer than us all.

Agree with this, wish we could "do over" from Jan 2012 onwards, I fear Harry may be proven right when he said that's as good as it gets.

 

[parklane1]

Agree with this, wish we could "do over" from Jan 2012 onwards, I fear Harry may be proven right when he said that's as good as it gets.

Well it was for him that's for sure.

 

[billyiddo]

Agree with this, wish we could "do over" from Jan 2012 onwards, I fear Harry may be proven right when he said that's as good as it gets.

yep should have made the change then

 

[DHSF]

Well it was for him that's for sure.

Yep that's so true - I mean we have excelled since then.

 

[billyiddo]

Yep that's so true - I mean we have excelled since then.

excelled? no, carried on our form of 5th/4th/5th/4th? yes

 

[parklane1]

Yep that's so true - I mean we have excelled since then.

Well he has not which was my point.

 

[milo]

No I'm not saying we lack those players. All of our players (including Dawson) are technically competent to play this way.

This is precisely why I don't think it's an excuse - I think the players lack confidence and understanding of what to do and i think they are actually being coached in a safety first approach where you don't pass into tightly congested areas and have to spend an hour a time passing safely sideways and backwards waiting for the opposition to make a mistake in their marking system and.a gap to open up.

As I keep saying AVB seems to believe in football by percentages. I think he believes that even the best drilled teams will switch off a couple of times a match. His stance is safety first, don't take risks, wait for that to happen rather than to impose a style on the opposition and MAKE the mistakes and openings ourselves.

Chile's players aren't individually that great. Sanchez is brilliant obviously but Bousejour? Seriously? They're just a well coached team, given freedom and confidence to trust their own footballing instincts and ability and are better than the sum of their parts as a result.

Our players look over-coached, always thinking , never instinctive. You can see the doubt on their minds every time they look forward, check back and knock a safe pass sideways.

To me this is AVB's fault. This squad has so much potential but it's being strangled by over coaching

Sorry to bring this up again but how do you round this with what you were saying about the quality of our players a couple of weeks ago and what has happened to change your mind?

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5280-Selling-off-your-best-players

 

[Rossi22]

yep should have made the change then

If the FA had appointed Hodgson at that time then I'm sure the rest of that season and subsequent season would've been so much different.

 

[milo]

If the FA had appointed Hodgson at that time then I'm sure the rest of that season and subsequent season would've been so much different.

We'll never know, so I don't think it is worth spending too much time worrying about it

 

[Pirate55]

You don't see us in the middle of a grand masterplan, but do you think he's in a gradual process of improvement that will take time or do you think we see more or less the finished product?

The Townsend comment doesn't answer my question to NWND, why is Townsend allowed to play before this is coached out of him if this is indeed what AVB is doing with Lamela?

I specifically said that AVB oversaw Bale's development to avoid this going off topic into another Bale development discussion. I thought this was a wording neutral enough that no on would feel inclined to kickstart that old discussion, seems I was wrong. Feel free to take this off topic arguing against what "some people" think in some other thread if that is what you want though...

I HOPE we are in the middle of a grand masterplan. I would hate to suffer this turgid football with no end gain.

I thought I answered your Townsend comment. I think he IS being coached out of his natural tenancies. Just like AVB has effectively neutered Lennon by changing him into a player who has lost much of his attacking devilment.

I am happy to leave the Bale issue to another thread, but would re-iterate my view that it was Bale himself who had the biggest influence on his own development.

 

[Rossi22]

We'll never know, so I don't think it is worth spending too much time worrying about it

Reminiscing has helped me get through a lot of games recently.

 

[milo]

I HOPE we are in the middle of a grand masterplan. I would hate to suffer this turgid football with no end gain.

I thought I answered your Townsend comment. I think he IS being coached out of his natural tenancies. Just like AVB has effectively neutered Lennon by changing him into a player who has lost much of his attacking devilment.

I am happy to leave the Bale issue to another thread, but would re-iterate my view that it was Bale himself who had the biggest influence on his own development.

How many games are you basing that judgement on? I thought that he was very effective for us last season before he got injured.

 

[NWND]

Sorry to bring this up again but how do you round this with what you were saying about the quality of our players a couple of weeks ago and what has happened to change your mind?

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5280-Selling-off-your-best-players

Easy, that the players we have now need more work from the coaching staff to get the most out of them. To an extent you can just send Modric, VDV and Bale and co onto a football pitch and "let them run about a bit".

My point is that the top quality players are easy to coach.

We have lost a lot of quality, but there is still a lot of quality. There is still more than enough quality to play a lot better than we have done over the last year and a half since AVB took over.

Its been very disappointing.

I'd say Redknapp should have done even more than he did too. He took his eye off the ball and if he had used that squad he had more wisely, he'd have been good for a proper title challenge IMO.

Right now, this squad is more than good enough to play high-quality possession football and score a load more goals than it is doing, especially at home.

I don't see the difficulty in squaring the two points.

Being completely fair to AVB, he has had to deal with a loss of quality. In VDV's case, I think this was of his own doing, as while there might have been a niggle to go back to Germany, i get the impression that he'd have stayed if he had felt needed/wanted at Spurs. There was some story about AVB telling him that Sigurdsson was going to be his no. 1 and that he could stay if he didn't mind being a squad player. In that context, if true, i'm not sure i'd have stayed around either.

So AVB this summer loses Bale and in his place gets a lot of players with potential, that are naturally going to be a bit less consistent in their quality. However, acknowledging this as a problem, i think he's gone about it badly, by stifling their talents and/or just not picking them and creating a team that far from being inconsistent (such as e.g. Emirates Marketing Project have been), are consistently horrendous to watch and average results-wise.

I can't quite believe that a manager given Adebayor, Defoe, Soldado, Kane, Townsend, Lennon, Eriksen, Holtby, Lamela, Sigurdsson, Chadli and Paulinho could make us soooooo painfully ineffective as an attacking force.

So far this season:
1) We're pathetic to watch
2) We don't look like scoring
3) We've scored less goals than everyone bar two of the division's poorest teams
4) We're 7th and have lost two games at home already to sides we should be beating

We're failing on all levels, even results-wise so far.

To answer some of your arguments about Townsend, do you really see Townsend as a free-spirit/off the cuff player? He likes a dribble and a trick, but he does stick to the game plan, i.e. he stays on the right, doesn't wander and makes the same runs, cutting in and shooting.

He does the same thing robotically all the time. He receives the ball in the same areas, runs at the defence the same way, cuts inside and shoots.

He shows all the signs of being coached and following a script. Get the ball here, do this, do that, keep repeating.

Townsend's performances have almost been as boringly familiar as Spurs' this season. It was a revelation to see him play for England as he looked so much better and more effective, don't you all agree?

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree with milo on this one.

But if you insist that this is a great post, would you mind typing out the main points being made that you would like people to seriously respond to?

I see "we are 100% devoid of attacking philosophy" as a point, one that has been discussed continuously in multiple threads.

What other points are there that are worthy of serious replies? Serious question, not having a go, I just see a lot of phalanx this, phalanx that and a couple of straw men.

Since you ask, tables that show we are third from games that go back to last season, I don't see how that is relevant to this season.

Winning games with lucky penalties and not looking like scoring from open play in a large number of the games.

People pointing to the Europa League standings as proof that the team and manager are doing excellent despite it being a mediocre group of teams.

Being devoid of any invention and imagination in the final third of the pitch.

To be completely honest, it's a results business so I'm not actually unhappy with the results bar two shockers at home. And I do understand that we haven't fully clicked yet, but be honest, did you think we would be playing better than we are at the moment? Judging by the performances I believe that we are in a false position.

My big concern about AVB is our tactics going forward, last year it was give the ball to Bale and everyone else get out of the way. Substitutions is an area where AVB leaves a lot to be desired too.

 

[NWND]

Since you ask, tables that show we are third from games that go back to last season, I don't see how that is relevant to this season.

Winning games with lucky penalties and not looking like scoring from open play in a large number of the games.

People pointing to the Europa League standings as proof that the team and manager are doing excellent despite it being a mediocre group of teams.

Being devoid of any invention and imagination in the final third of the pitch.

To be completely honest, it's a results business so I'm not actually unhappy with the results bar two shockers at home. And I do understand that we haven't fully clicked yet, but be honest, did you think we would be playing better than we are at the moment? Judging by the performances I believe that we are in a false position.

My big concern about AVB is our tactics going forward, last year it was give the ball to Bale and everyone else get out of the way. Substitutions is an area where AVB leaves a lot to be desired too.

Precisely, whether you believe Bale's form was down to AVB, or just down to Bale, or a combination of both (i personally believe it was down to Bale, but also helped by AVB agreeing to play him in the hole, at Bale's request (according to AVB himself)), the fact is that last season we were also painfully ineffective as an attacking force and there were so many games where we were reliant on Bale to come up with something from absolutely nothing in order to win or draw.

Adebayor and Defoe went from dangerous Premiership attackers to very ineffective and isolated. Its funny how we all thought we needed a new striker, but it turns out that Soldado looks as isolated and ineffective as Ade did last year and now its less of "oh typical Ade only played well on loan to get his contract, but as soon as he got one he turned crap" and more "oh, maybe its the system we play and the complete lack of support, service or attacking plan that makes our strikers look so inept".

 

[Jurgen the German]

You bet your fecking life!

Soldado started well. He was like Defoe only he never was offside and he shot on sight.

But he has slipped. Defoe was given an opp against WHU but did not take it.

Adebayor is offside just as often as "Goals" aka Defoe.

 

[Pirate55]

How many games are you basing that judgement on? I thought that he was very effective for us last season before he got injured.

IMV, Lennon has gone backwards since he first burst on the scene. He used to get me on the edge of my seat virtually every time he touched the ball. Under AVB, he is more often than not content to pass the ball sideways or backwards. Not losing possession seems now to be his highest priority.

How do you rate his effectiveness? Goals, assists? By any metric, as one of the few attacking players in AVB's teams, he is just not producing.

 

[Jurgen the German]

you think we're setting up to counter attack? id say that's the total opposite of what we're aiming for - we're trying to go from plucky counter attacking football of the previous few years to become a possession based team.

last season the high line wasn't as evident and we didn't dominate half as much as we do now - both these areas have taken a step forward and i think now that we have these area's 'sorted' it's a case of finding the right style with which to use that possession as a base from which to attack and break down our opponents - we've obviously not found the right combination of tactics/players atm to do so - maybe we won't do that, personally id like to see how our game develops once the likes of Eriksen and Lamela are in the team - even Chadli who in the games he played showed himself capable, imv, of providing some creativity. potentially that's 3 creative/intelligent players to come in to the team - which should ​further transform our general attacking play. If we get these players in to the team and we're still having the same problems then questions will have to be asked

Sorry but we were not a plucky counter attacking team. Against the big teams we were, you can't rock up to grounds like the Etihad and go all guns blazing, you have to be a little bit cautious. Against everybody else, home and away we tried the dominate the game and played like the home team in most of the games.

I'm disappointed that Lamela still hasn't been given a start in the league. I accept that he has had some poor games, but he can't do much from the bench. Just puts him under more pressure to deliver when AVB chucks him on for 20 minutes and says go on then win the game for us.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Did you think that was a penalty because I bloody didn't. Verts went to ground looking for it under minimal contact. Forget the pen anyway, it was the most boring stifled game I'd ever seen in my life. I don't have to make my argument stronger than it is. I'd just urge anyone to watch Spurs this season and make up their own mind. We've been terrible

I thought both teams should have had a penalty.