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AVB - I want him out now!

billyiddo said:
you think we're setting up to counter attack? id say that's the total opposite of what we're aiming for - we're trying to go from plucky counter attacking football of the previous few years to become a possession based team.

last season the high line wasn't as evident and we didn't dominate half as much as we do now - both these areas have taken a step forward and i think now that we have these area's 'sorted' it's a case of finding the right style with which to use that possession as a base from which to attack and break down our opponents - we've obviously not found the right combination of tactics/players atm to do so - maybe we won't do that, personally id like to see how our game develops once the likes of Eriksen and Lamela are in the team - even Chadli who in the games he played showed himself capable, imv, of providing some creativity. potentially that's 3 creative/intelligent players to come in to the team - which should ​further transform our general attacking play.
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if thats the ultimate aim then we may struggle to get the best out of Soldado and Lamela whose success came from playing in counter attacking sides
 
maybe - but does the fact that they came from counter attacking sides mean they don't have the attributes to succeed in a possession based team?
 
billyiddo said:
maybe - but does the fact that they came from counter attacking sides mean they don't have the attributes to succeed in a possession based team?
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no, but we have to see if we can improve what we do with the possession in the final third
 
I'm not anywhere near as AVB-skeptic as AE in this, I don't think, but I'd support him here to the extent that I think the spirit of the post with the last-38-games table was to suggest that the naysayers' arguments have no merit, and I don't think it demonstrates anything of the sort.

It would be nice for everyone if we could all pick and choose where we start and finish counting our points total from, and when 2/3 of that table includes results we recorded when we had Gareth Bale doing what we have singularly fought shy of since his departure; namely, putting the ball in the net, there is a question being begged somewhere.

In terms of the EL argument, I wouldn't necessarily expect us to blow anyone out of the water; it very seldom goes like that for any side these days.

AVB should be moving heaven and earth to get Adebayor back involved, IMO.
 
thfcsteff said:
Discussion is great, but advocating sacking the manager right now is (IMHO) absurd.

As for the bold-face point, I'd say that last season we didn't get a single, solitary penalty when we deserved several, and thus if we want to start debating what penalties have been fortunate this season, it's IMPOSSIBLE to ignore last season. Put it this way, one or two penalties last season and we're playing on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Right?
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Also if we are going to remove our pen goals because they weren't deserved, then it's only fair we remove all other teams undeserved goals from the equation (pens, offsides, fouls etc). I know Chelsea got a dodgy pen to rescue a draw the other day. Then we can see where everyone stands. It may not make a difference to be honest.
 
billyiddo said:
you think we're setting up to counter attack? id say that's the total opposite of what we're aiming for - we're trying to go from plucky counter attacking football of the previous few years to become a possession based team.

last season the high line wasn't as evident and we didn't dominate half as much as we do now - both these areas have taken a step forward and i think now that we have these area's 'sorted' it's a case of finding the right style with which to use that possession as a base from which to attack and break down our opponents - we've obviously not found the right combination of tactics/players atm to do so - maybe we won't do that, personally id like to see how our game develops once the likes of Eriksen and Lamela are in the team - even Chadli who in the games he played showed himself capable, imv, of providing some creativity. potentially that's 3 creative/intelligent players to come in to the team - which should ​further transform our general attacking play. If we get these players in to the team and we're still having the same problems then questions will have to be asked
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We're only a possession based team when other teams sit back and invite us on to them. We're allowed to have possession by other teams because they know we're gonna do nothing with it. AVB has regularly sent us out with upto 4 midfielders incapable of passing the ball with any intelligence or creatively. We're not playign any real possesstion game with Sandro, Paulinho, Townsend and Lennon.

If he actually wanted us to play possession football he would have brought in someone who can dictate and control play in the middle of the pitch. Instead we have physical players playing physical football.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Can you please hurry up and tell the managers in the Prem then? I don't know what you're waiting for - this knowledge could save careers!
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The best teams in the prem attack with pace, quick, accurate passing, intelligence. They stretch defenses and get behind the backline!

We haven't done any of these things so far this season so...

If keeping possession slows down how we play it hasn't worked so far in the prem!

The rest of your post is ridiculous as I don't have the means to communicate with prem managers nor do I want to ;)
 
mudshark said:
I'm not anywhere near as AVB-skeptic as AE in this, I don't think, but I'd support him here to the extent that I think the spirit of the post with the last-38-games table was to suggest that the naysayers' arguments have no merit, and I don't think it demonstrates anything of the sort.

It would be nice for everyone if we could all pick and choose where we start and finish counting our points total from, and when 2/3 of that table includes results we recorded when we had Gareth Bale doing what we have singularly fought shy of since his departure; namely, putting the ball in the net, there is a question being begged somewhere.

In terms of the EL argument, I wouldn't necessarily expect us to blow anyone out of the water; it very seldom goes like that for any side these days.

AVB should be moving heaven and earth to get Adebayor back involved, IMO.
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If you actually look at the second half of the season and take the Bale goals out we won 2 games out of the last 17 league games.
 
And we have 15 non Bale goals from those 17 games. Same pattern as the 9 goals from the last 11 we currently have.
This isn't a new problem. Its something AVB has failed to solve over the last 18 months.
 
I don't care about damn lies and statistics, or last 38 game tables, I'm a fan who trusts my eyes and instincts and what I see before me. We're playing poorly, we're struggling to create chances of note, we're slow and lethargic, we're vulnerable to the counter attack. We struggle to cope with the poorest sides. Case in point: Sheriff away. How the hell did we win that game? A fair reflection of the play would be 5-2 Sheriff. We we're cut open so many times. We're rarely that dominant, we'll we are in terms of keeping the ball, but we just pass sideways, backwards not going anywhere. But then teams get the ball and it seems like one ball is all it needs most times to turn us round and get in behind us. We're treading such a fine line all the time, not looking like scoring but always vulnerable to conceeding. Not sure why our defensive record is so good.

The problem is that we stifle games so much by pushing up so high that one goal normally settles it. If the opposition get it we invariably lose. There's so much space behind our defence that if you have a pace man like Remy you can just punt balls over the top or play through balls and we're screwed.

When was the last time we had a really dominant performance were all the players and fans looked like we were all together and enjoying themselves? I'd say it was Saudi Sportswashing Machine home under Harry.

It's a struggle for us to beat 2nd rate teams routinely. If we win by more than 1 goal it's a shock.

The results we have gained under AVB have mostly been despite the performances rather than because of them. Last season we were literally Bale-ed out so many times.

This season we've ridden a wave of luck with very soft hand-ball penalty decisions. A failure to award a pen against Verts at Everton and some lucky goals like Townsend's v Villa. The performances have been terrible like the 2nd half of last season but the results look like catching up with us.

West Ham as a performance and result was as bad as anything I witnessed under Ardiles, Gross etc, the players looked like they were confused and resigned to the defeat. A poor side running riot at WHL. The top teams sometimes lose at home to poor sides but normally they're a bit unlucky ANC lose 1-0. We were totally outplayed and humiliated.

Hull we're very unlucky against us passing up several opportunities ANC having a very soft pen given against them. The Saudi Sportswashing Machine result was coming and was no surprise to me.

We are treading water going nowhere and were the dullest team in the league. This isn't Spurs.
 
Modric THFC said:
If you actually look at the second half of the season and take the Bale goals out we won 2 games out of the last 17 league games.
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That's one way of looking at it, alternatively, if we replace Dempsey with Messi we win every game and end the season second with a goal difference of +50 #-o
 
NWND said:
I don't care about damn lies and statistics, or last 38 game tables, I'm a fan who trusts my eyes and instincts and what I see before me. We're playing poorly, we're struggling to create chances of note, we're slow and lethargic, we're vulnerable to the counter attack. We struggle to cope with the poorest sides. Case in point: Sheriff away. How the hell did we win that game? A fair reflection of the play would be 5-2 Sheriff. We we're cut open so many times. We're rarely that dominant, we'll we are in terms of keeping the ball, but we just pass sideways, backwards not going anywhere. But then teams get the ball and it seems like one ball is all it needs most times to turn us round and get in behind us. We're treading such a fine line all the time, not looking like scoring but always vulnerable to conceeding. Not sure why our defensive record is so good.

The problem is that we stifle games so much by pushing up so high that one goal normally settles it. If the opposition get it we invariably lose. There's so much space behind our defence that if you have a pace man like Remy you can just punt balls over the top or play through balls and we're screwed.

When was the last time we had a really dominant performance were all the players and fans looked like we were all together and enjoying themselves? I'd say it was Saudi Sportswashing Machine home under Harry.

It's a struggle for us to beat 2nd rate teams routinely. If we win by more than 1 goal it's a shock.

The results we have gained under AVB have mostly been despite the performances rather than because of them. Last season we were literally Bale-ed out so many times.

This season we've ridden a wave of luck with very soft hand-ball penalty decisions. A failure to award a pen against Verts at Everton and some lucky goals like Townsend's v Villa. The performances have been terrible like the 2nd half of last season but the results look like catching up with us.

West Ham as a performance and result was as bad as anything I witnessed under Ardiles, Gross etc, the players looked like they were confused and resigned to the defeat. A poor side running riot at WHL. The top teams sometimes lose at home to poor sides but normally they're a bit unlucky ANC lose 1-0. We were totally outplayed and humiliated.

Hull we're very unlucky against us passing up several opportunities ANC having a very soft pen given against them. The Saudi Sportswashing Machine result was coming and was no surprise to me.

We are treading water going nowhere and were the dullest team in the league. This isn't Spurs.
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Agree with pretty much everything you said here. Can only think that those that can't see the same are in some sort of denial.

However, the question remains , should AVB given time to sort it out? Is he in the middle of a plan to make us world beaters?

I have seen no evidence myself that he is likely to deliver results and entertainment. I only hope the optimism of Steff, Brain and others is well founded. Lets see. The time to dispense with AVB may well come, but to get rid now would be premature IMO. But he needs to turn things round - and fast. I hope he can do so otherwise we are in for more transition and destabilisation.
 
I love how facts are stated to always serve one purpose or another and the truth is often hidden. Example here is how NWND states that we were lucky that Everton weren't awarded a penalty against us. Yes, we were lucky, as it was a foul from Vertonghen but, how convenient of you to leave out the penalty that we should have been awarded earlier in the game when the same two players clashed. Why was that ignored so blatantly? Other than to perhaps serve your agenda and to make your post appear stronger than it actually is.
 
El Guepardo said:
I love how facts are stated to always serve one purpose or another and the truth is often hidden. Example here is how NWND states that we were lucky that Everton weren't awarded a penalty against us. Yes, we were lucky, as it was a foul from Vertonghen but, how convenient of you to leave out the penalty that we should have been awarded earlier in the game when the same two players clashed. Why was that ignored so blatantly? Other than to perhaps serve your agenda and to make your post appear stronger than it actually is.
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Did you think that was a penalty because I bloody didn't. Verts went to ground looking for it under minimal contact. Forget the pen anyway, it was the most boring stifled game I'd ever seen in my life. I don't have to make my argument stronger than it is. I'd just urge anyone to watch Spurs this season and make up their own mind. We've been terrible
 
El Guepardo said:
I love how facts are stated to always serve one purpose or another and the truth is often hidden. Example here is how NWND states that we were lucky that Everton weren't awarded a penalty against us. Yes, we were lucky, as it was a foul from Vertonghen but, how convenient of you to leave out the penalty that we should have been awarded earlier in the game when the same two players clashed. Why was that ignored so blatantly? Other than to perhaps serve your agenda and to make your post appear stronger than it actually is.
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Just to be pedantic, I thought I'd mention that NWND forgot to mention the fortunate penalty vs Crystal Palace at the start of the season.
 
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