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Another shooting in Murica

AuroRaman said:
I’m sorry you’re struggling at the moment, perhaps quoting another Trump racial slur will make things all better?
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if i were genuinely struggling at home, do you realise how awful your message would be?

although i shouldnt expect otherwise, given the childish amount of name calling that you have been involved in when others share varied views to yours.

the point still stands btw, and is 100% correct - black people are responsible for homicides by a factor that is multiple times higher than any other ethnicity in the US - and you wonder why black arrest rates are higher? you should try using your brain for once in your life ;)
 
Wilheldiva said:
if i were genuinely struggling at home, do you realise how awful your message would be?

although i shouldnt expect otherwise, given the childish amount of name calling that you have been involved in when others share varied views to yours.

the point still stands btw, and is 400% correct - black people are responsible for homicides by a factor that is multiple times higher than any other ethnicity in the US - and you wonder why black arrest rates are higher? you should try using your brain for once in your life ;)
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I'm sorry I've got so under your skin
 
LutonSpurs said:
You are way too intelligent to use that data set Scara FFS.
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There isn't a better one to use.

Now if you're calling for keeping better data I'm absolutely with you. And if that turns out to show police as racist I'll join you in criticising them.
 
scaramanga said:
Not fearful for me - I wouldn't go near that job with a bricky stick.

However, in a country where so many criminals own guns, it would be very difficult to staff a police force that cannot take preventative action to protect their own safety.
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I agree that in a gun nation both sides have to be equal, but there is an increasing prevalence of basic police training being ditched for these responses, which I am sure are partially due to the media frenzy. Fear and ignorance remain two of the great controllers sadly.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I am pretty great it's true.


I know you live in the states. Is it getting to the point whereyou dont feel safe now?

We wanted to drive the Pacific coast highway. You know im not anti American but as fascinating as the country looks im not sure i want to visit again.

Trump is the cause of the current problems for me. He is president he should be coming out and trying to subdue the tensions instead he rises them.

I am not trying to sound woke or politically correct, could not think of anything worse. It is clear he is not fit to be president and it is clear the police over there have a huge issue with black men.

My politics are i believe in being tough on criminals but after they have been through a court of law. My views on same sex marriages and trans and disabled and race and asylum issues would put me on the left. Yes be tough on criminals but only after a trial.
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Indeed mate.
Been here a long time and until March 2020 had the fortune to be able to go back and forth four or five times a year (hence why I get to around 10-12 games a season home and away - that is thanks to work not wealth BTW, lest anyone think I'm loaded).
It is a strange thing right now...I don't feel any less safe, no. What I am finding is that the overall culture is becoming so polarized it is constantly tense. Whether it be right wing tossers or cancel culture zealots, there is no middle ground, common sense or discussion. Trump is absolutely the driver, tin hat conspiracies can be what they want but the truth is he is behind much of this with his manner.
I find myself repeatedly retreating into my Yorkshire Gold and British TV to escape it, well, that and hikes plus got back into cycling. We are on the west coast a beach town with lots of rugged beauty around us so very very lucky in that regard.
This is the longest I have not been back home since I was 18 (see, I still call it home) and I retain my passport and citizenship.
If you ever do make it out here again and drive the PCH, let me know. Tea/beers/a good meal and maybe if you play your cards right some custard and fishnets await.
 
thfcsteff said:
I agree that in a gun nation both sides have to be equal, but there is an increasing prevalence of basic police training being ditched for these responses, which I am sure are partially due to the media frenzy. Fear and ignorance remain two of the great controllers sadly.
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I can't possibly put myself in the situation a policeman would be in - especially with the unknown element of someone reaching for something. I've seen some of their training videos and it's made very clear that by the time you see the gun, you're probably too late.

What I do know is that most humans don't make their best decisions under pressure. I'm far more inclined to put shootings down to pressure, a lack of training and poor recruitment than outright racism unless or until I see something far more solid that we have seen as evidence.
 
scaramanga said:
I can't possibly put myself in the situation a policeman would be in - especially with the unknown element of someone reaching for something. I've seen some of their training videos and it's made very clear that by the time you see the gun, you're probably too late.

What I do know is that most humans don't make their best decisions under pressure. I'm far more inclined to put shootings down to pressure, a lack of training and poor recruitment than outright racism unless or until I see something far more solid that we have seen as evidence.
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Which I guess could equally apply to the person on the receiving end of police shouting and pointing guns at them? That’s a pretty pressurised position to be in.
Compliance might seem the obvious way to deal with the police but who knows how one might react in that situation, especially if previous experiences with the police have not been positive.

I don’t know anywhere near enough about this case to pass too much comment but if the police are firing 7 shots into someone’s back out of pressure and/or lack of training, even without racism being thrown into the mix, then something is seriously wrong.
 
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Glenda's Legs said:
Which I guess could equally apply to the person on the receiving end of police shouting and pointing guns at them? That’s a pretty pressurised position to be in.
Compliance might seem the obvious way to deal with the police but who knows how one might react in that situation, especially if previous experiences with the police have not been positive.

I don’t know anywhere near enough about this case to pass too much comment but if the police are firing 7 shots into someone’s back out of pressure and/or lack of training, even without racism being thrown into the mix, then something is seriously wrong.
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The suspect has the simpler task - he doesn't have any decisions to make. He just has to follow instructions in order to not get shot.
 
thfcsteff said:
Indeed mate.
Been here a long time and until March 2020 had the fortune to be able to go back and forth four or five times a year (hence why I get to around 10-12 games a season home and away - that is thanks to work not wealth BTW, lest anyone think I'm loaded).
It is a strange thing right now...I don't feel any less safe, no. What I am finding is that the overall culture is becoming so polarized it is constantly tense. Whether it be right wing tossers or cancel culture zealots, there is no middle ground, common sense or discussion. Trump is absolutely the driver, tin hat conspiracies can be what they want but the truth is he is behind much of this with his manner.
I find myself repeatedly retreating into my Yorkshire Gold and British TV to escape it, well, that and hikes plus got back into cycling. We are on the west coast a beach town with lots of rugged beauty around us so very very lucky in that regard.
This is the longest I have not been back home since I was 18 (see, I still call it home) and I retain my passport and citizenship.
If you ever do make it out here again and drive the PCH, let me know. Tea/beers/a good meal and maybe if you play your cards right some custard and fishnets await.
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Its a date.:D
 
scaramanga said:
I can't possibly put myself in the situation a policeman would be in - especially with the unknown element of someone reaching for something. I've seen some of their training videos and it's made very clear that by the time you see the gun, you're probably too late.

What I do know is that most humans don't make their best decisions under pressure. I'm far more inclined to put shootings down to pressure, a lack of training and poor recruitment than outright racism unless or until I see something far more solid that we have seen as evidence.
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Try to imagine the scene, watch the video, put yourself in the victims literal position, whatever it takes. The cop(s) have guns pointed at him, he's going to the car (which I agree is a stupid move), the cops are still pointing guns at him. How the flying fcuk is he supposed to pick up a gun and turn around in a car door partially open situation, take aim at one of the cops ALL in the time it takes the cop(s) with guns still pointed at him to simply pull a trigger?

3EYnzU_0WjyyR9500
 
awesome dawson said:
Try to imagine the scene, watch the video, put yourself in the victims literal position, whatever it takes. The cop(s) have guns pointed at him, he's going to the car (which I agree is a stupid move), the cops are still pointing guns at him. How the flying fcuk is he supposed to pick up a gun and turn around in a car door partially open situation, take aim at one of the cops ALL in the time it takes the cop(s) with guns still pointed at him to simply pull a trigger?

3EYnzU_0WjyyR9500
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Thats it for me. Even if he had a gun he would not be able to turn around without being seen.

His kids were in the car as well. Just wow.
 
scaramanga said:
I can't possibly put myself in the situation a policeman would be in - especially with the unknown element of someone reaching for something. I've seen some of their training videos and it's made very clear that by the time you see the gun, you're probably too late.

What I do know is that most humans don't make their best decisions under pressure. I'm far more inclined to put shootings down to pressure, a lack of training and poor recruitment than outright racism unless or until I see something far more solid that we have seen as evidence.
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There are some who clearly are not following procedure or training, and are either allowing the climate of fear and ignorance to make them nervous, or are using it as an excuse to enact their own warped and racist ideas of "justice". I know I keep bleating on about this, but I know a few cops who are constantly engaged with bringing down some nasty pieces of work, and they have not had to use their weapons thanks to careful planning, appropriate back-up and a clear grasp of the situation they are heading into. I agree, poor recruitment is a definite issue which has not helped the situation, as there are certainly some warped people getting hired.
 
I do think that its far too simplistic to file all these incidents under just racism, I watched a few videos by the likes of Terry Crews to get a perspective on this and he talks well if unpopular about things and based on that and what I have thought the problems are bigger than just pure racism. If its racism alone its a simpler problem to fix than the problem that America has which is:

Racism - in cases not all but clearly there
Scepticism & Paranoia from black community towards police
Scepticism & Paranoia from police towards black community
Poor decision making by the police in some cases
Poor decision making by the victims in some cases
Escalation of gun ownership and reliance of guns

Add social and community issues and you have something thats going to take generations to reverse

For me the gun ownership is key to this, I read the news story about the white guy who opened his door with a gun in his hand and was killed by the police which encapsulates the last three points above, when you add the first three you have a melting pot for disaster.

When you add all those elements together you have a melting pot that for me is extremely difficult to sort, it gets harder with every incident. Police are going to be attacked more as an institution rightly and wrongly which will highten paranoia and with riots and the potential of guns I just see this situation getting worse.
 
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