• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 80 42.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 109 57.7%
  • Total voters
    189
Grays_1890 said:
I would say the "squad for all" signings which all managers are going to be expected to work with, give or take is 2 years in.
Click to expand...

It's our second/third rebuild in what five years. And we still have some of the players from Jose on our books.

Two things stump me about the in/out debate.
We have been in chaos since Poch last full season, we've never really came out of it. Sack ange, and I really would not have a problem with that, and bring in a manager. Fine. How long does he get to turn it around?
And what is "turning it around" actually mean.
Poch took us to undreamed og heights in trying circumstances and we showed no patience with him.
Tell me what the goals are.

Secondly, the data shows.
Does it?
Did the data from last season show that even with five places available the all conquering Emirates Marketing Project would be going into the last game needing to win to get CL?
Did it show Emirates Marketing Project winning zip?
Where did the data point to forest potentially getting CL, finishing above any of city, villa or Chelsea?
What about man utd finishing in the bottom five, even after that great cure all of changing the manager.
Yes our data indicated that we could struggle next season.
Indicates, could.
No guarantees.

I can only assume that those posting these certainties are doing so from their yatchs in the Caribbean, after if you know all that surely you must be taking millions of the bookies.
 
billyiddo said:
Switching managerial styles obviously has some additional wastage involved but plenty of players can and do adapt to different styles - you don't only buy players who currently play in a team playing the same tactics as your current manager for example. Skills/talent can be transferable.

The players you listed there just aren't good enough fullstop and would have been sold regardless as they had their couple of years to show their worth and were left wanting. In terms of style of play Reggie & PEH probably suit Ange for example. Royal less so.

The important thing here is that we have had a senior employee/'consultant' part of the transfer process, shaping our thinking and targets.
Click to expand...


So players bought for a different style and have been found out to be not good are included in a new managers rebuild.
They cannot be included in an ange squad. He had zero input in them.
 
We have had at least 16 different managers under ENIC and most of them have been failures. With the low success rate I would rather give the manager who has just won us a trophy a bit more time
 
Last edited:
billyiddo said:
If a prospective manager had our league record during the periods we have been playing 2 games a week would you be confident they would be the man for the job?

Be honest now...
Click to expand...

For me no, and I don't have much confidence that ange can turn it around either.
If pushed I would take a punt on glasner.
But honestly I'm increasingly thinking that the problem is the fans.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I would say the "squad for all" signings which all managers are going to be expected to work with, give or take is 2 years in.
Click to expand...

Squad players that weren't good enough, even as squad players, but were actually first team starters.
Certain areas of our recruitment and squad were a joke. Players bought for Jose that we can't give away still hanging around, taking money, collecting medals (seriously wtaf, how did reggie get a medal), but that's all in ange.
 
billyiddo said:
That's not what I said or how I explained things
Click to expand...

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post, not intentional.
I should have stopped this 10 mins ago, trying to get out the house but keep coming back to it and concentration isn't what it should be.
The daggers in the back of the head from the wife standing not so patiently at the door aren't helping.
 
glasgowspur said:
Squad players that weren't good enough, even as squad players, but were actually first team starters.
Certain areas of our recruitment and squad were a joke. Players bought for Jose that we can't give away still hanging around, taking money, collecting medals (seriously wtaf, how did reggie get a medal), but that's all in ange.
Click to expand...

What I meant is, the signings like Udogie, Gray, Bergvall, Solanke, MVDV, Danso, The Croatian lad etc, there is going to be an expectation on any manager coming in to say "look you have these to work with and you have to make them work" whilst getting support elsewhere. That for me started 2 years or so back and I agree with it to an extent. No manager gets an entire 11 to their style, yes we should always look to evolve, but there has to be a core where the manager earns his money too
 
glasgowspur said:
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post, not intentional.
I should have stopped this 10 mins ago, trying to get out the house but keep coming back to it and concentration isn't what it should be.
The daggers in the back of the head from the wife standing not so patiently at the door aren't helping.
Click to expand...

Standard forumming behaviour 😂
 
Ange in his first season went first 10 games on the trot without a loss, ended up 5th and got us in the Europa League

second season, injuries galore, threw everything into the Europa League, won it and got us in the Champions League

season 3? To Dare is to Do
 
harr1984 said:
Let's see how he does in his second season, I'm sure you don't need reminding that new coaches to the PL often do better in their first season when an unknown. Also Brighton are one of those with no European football, we've played over half a seasons more games than them. It's a different kettle of fish with expectations at this club, let alone all the extra games itself.....
Click to expand...
Yeah, let's see, but Brighton have not followed the same trajectory as we have under Ange.

Brighton have maintained a consistent level of results and performances.

We started off like a train, but fell away badly and have kept falling. Our PPG in the first half of last season was much better than the second half of last season. Our PPG in the first half of this season was worse than the second half of last season. Our PPG since the mid point of this season has been, well, horrific....
 
indospurs said:
Ange in his first season went first 10 games on the trot without a loss, ended up 5th and got us in the Europa League

second season, injuries galore, threw everything into the Europa League, won it and got us in the Champions League

season 3? To Dare is to Do
Click to expand...
He had injuries galore in his first season too.
 
indospurs said:
yeah especially the CD pairing, which is absolutely key - i heard we let go a lot of/all of our medical staff? when was that, during last season?
Click to expand...
Injuries are not to do with medical staff. Recovery time/treatment advice yes. Injury prevention is down to coaching/conditioning. It's sports science, not medicine.

Ange has lots of injuries and they've been a problem at every club he's been at. He acknowledges that they're a natural consequence of the way he trains and plays. He has talked about that in the past. At previous clubs they've generally been better in his second season, but remember he generally coaches clubs that do not need to play at the weekly intensity you do in the PL. Combining PL and CL next season will be another learning curve for him.
 
glasgowspur said:
It's our second/third rebuild in what five years. And we still have some of the players from Jose on our books.

Two things stump me about the in/out debate.
We have been in chaos since Poch last full season, we've never really came out of it. Sack ange, and I really would not have a problem with that, and bring in a manager. Fine. How long does he get to turn it around?
And what is "turning it around" actually mean.
Poch took us to undreamed og heights in trying circumstances and we showed no patience with him.
Tell me what the goals are.

Secondly, the data shows.
Does it?
Did the data from last season show that even with five places available the all conquering Emirates Marketing Project would be going into the last game needing to win to get CL?
Did it show Emirates Marketing Project winning zip?
Where did the data point to forest potentially getting CL, finishing above any of city, villa or Chelsea?
What about man utd finishing in the bottom five, even after that great cure all of changing the manager.
Yes our data indicated that we could struggle next season.
Indicates, could.
No guarantees.

I can only assume that those posting these certainties are doing so from their yatchs in the Caribbean, after if you know all that surely you must be taking millions of the bookies.
Click to expand...
Sport does include the ability to beat the odds, which is why we all love it. But there are very very few cases of a club arresting a trend of declining PPG over 2 seasons by not changing the coaching staff....
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Sport does include the ability to beat the odds, which is why we all love it. But there are very very few cases of a club arresting a trend of declining PPG over 2 seasons by not changing the coaching staff....
Click to expand...
I think people forget that we actually finished 5th last season, this season that would have given us CL football. That means in theory we have only had 1 bad season in the league under Ange.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
He had injuries galore in his first season too.
Click to expand...
also, finish higher up the league qualify for the champions league - is tha what you want? like what we did under poch and the goonies have been doing on repeat as well?
Silly McSilly Face said:
Injuries are not to do with medical staff. Recovery time/treatment advice yes. Injury prevention is down to coaching/conditioning. It's sports science, not medicine.

Ange has lots of injuries and they've been a problem at every club he's been at. He acknowledges that they're a natural consequence of the way he trains and plays. He has talked about that in the past. At previous clubs they've generally been better in his second season, but remember he generally coaches clubs that do not need to play at the weekly intensity you do in the PL. Combining PL and CL next season will be another learning curve for him.
Click to expand...
you don't know then ? fitting pl and cl is no different than this season, except we play on a Tuesday or Wednesday and it's top level quality, which he faced at celtic

I say give him a chance to build and go again - we've tried with much better managers, no one has got us a trophy and champions league - no one
 
NaijaSpurs said:
I think people forget that we actually finished 5th last season, this season that would have given us CL football. That means in theory we have only had 1 bad season in the league under Ange.
Click to expand...
I'm not forgetting that: but we got 5th because he posted over 20 points in his first 10 games. The trend across his first season and this is only going in one direction:

First 10 games: W 8 D 2 L 0 Pts 24

First 19 games: W 11 D 3 L 5 Pts 36

Second 19 games: W 9 D 3 L 7 Pts 30

Third 19 games: W 7 D 3 L 9 Pts 24

Fourth 18 games: W 4 D 2 L 12 Pts 14

His first season minus the first 10 games:

P 28 W 12 D 4 L 12 Pts 40
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back