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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 82 43.4%
  • Out

    Votes: 107 56.6%

  • Total voters
    189
Some thoughts to share, starting back at the eve of Ange's first season, offering bullet points reasons behind what has been going on (from my perspective anyway) and concluding with why it is 'Ange In' for me...


1. He lost Harry Kane on the eve of his first Prem match in charge. I will spare you the goal stats; you can look them up and see what that immediately took away.

2. He was not given a replacement/time to sign one.

3. He was given a remit to be part of a CLUB-ORCHESRATED cultural change in both attitude and operation, which included bringing in new people above him to work between him and Levy.

4. The Chelsea match saw some bad luck. It also saw him take a stand; whether you liked that stand is personal choice.

5. The combination of World Cup hangover fatigue merged with pre-season and international tournaments meant that as we got into the New Year 2024, fatigue was starting to bed in.

6. NEVER forget, elements of our support base were so obsessed with allowing City to beat us so as to ensure the goons did not win the title. Postecoglu was visibly taken aback by it. Toxic vibes everywhere. Those three points cost us CL football.

7. Postecoglu and the staff/club made some mistakes coming into this season, both in terms of recruitment and planning. He has been very open about how pre-season should've been conducted differently in hindsight. Players such as Romero, off the back of yet another grueling summer tournament, needed a softer early season landing.

8. Despite trying early season rotation, the accumulation of overall football for several years led to an increase in injuries.

9. Once 'packs' of injuries happened, combined with the inexperience of our squad overall, the transfer window was vital. That injury crisis, BTW, was unique and unlike anything we will see again IMO.

10. Nobody expected a Vicario injury, and Forster was not the right backup. This was a major mistake made in the summer (not signing the right sort of backup), who knows exactly who was at fault there, but it cost us (to my mind) at least 9 points.

11. We only partially addressed our issues in January. Kinsky? Excellent signing. Tel? Potentially great but never going to be a short term bail out. We stuck with our remit as a club from summer 2023.

12. Once Postecoglu saw what the state of play was in the window, and once we lost to Liverpool in the CC, he has explained what some of us assumed, that he made a decision to focus on one tournament which would deliver both a trophy and CL football.

13. Some have questioned why he couldn't fight on two fronts from Feb onwards. I'm sure the reasons will be forthcoming in the weeks ahead, but put simply, between long-lay off players coming back and being rusty, to rotating in players who had not spent much time training with each other for some time due to said-injuries, to trying to protect the blue-chip players who he could absolutely rely on, he made the decision to focus on one competition.

14. Most teams in our pitiful league position would've seen mutiny within the dressing room by March. Indeed, the much venerated 'winner' Jose Mourinho managed to explode the dressing room so badly that he got sacked before a Final (yes, he really f-uc-king DID). Our dressing room went the opposite way, with players closing ranks despite the best efforts of pundits and journos to drag bits of gossip and back-talking out of them.

15. Postecoglu had been quietly tweaking his 'Angeball' for a few months from February; the media were so obsessed with how 'out of control' we were that they refused to acknowledge it.

16. Make no mistake; league performances were largely sloppy and (in a few specific cases) absolutely unacceptable with regards to the players. For the most part, we paid the price for silly individual errors, and lost the vast majority of our games by a single goal margin. again, there were certainly some awful performance in there, no argument.

17. You sensed by the time we played Frankfurt that the players buy-in with Postecoglu was pretty big. And as we've seen in the last two months, it has grown into something, well, historic for us.

18. We have seen that Postecoglu took an incredibly ballsy gamble, asked the players to buy-in, got their buy-in, and in doing so, both got rewarded for their efforts by winning the Europa League and getting into the CL. In doing so, and in taking THIS specific path with this group of players, it is hard not to assume that there has been a fortification and establishment of something very special in terms of belief. The buy-in will remain total in whatever he wants them to do. Providing we back him as HE wants to be backed, we should IMO persevere next season.

Ange in.

p.s. Ferguson was on the verge of the sack when he won the cup with Utd in 89/90. They finished their league season 13th, just 5 points above the relegation zone.

I don't care about any of that. All i care about is ange the coach to get the best out of the squad next season?

For me the answer is no. Think if he's our coach we'll have terrible results again. With no el get out of jail free card. So he should be replaced now. Rather than in oct/nov.
 
You never stop learning. I get that we are all euphoric at a trophy. But I find it incomprehensible that an apparently large number of supporters are now suffering from amnesia. I have watched every game for the last two years. I do not see how anyone looking at our performances can see a progression in a direction that sustained success is over the horizon. We play Angeball and always look like conceding. See, record number of defeats this season and form after league game 10 last season.

But he won a trophy… As others have pointed out, so did Ramos and Ten Haag. Has Ange earned the right to another year? I could understand that sentiment more if we had overwhelmed United with a display of dominance to vindicate Angeball. But the reality was an eked out desperate defensive display.

Look I would have loved Ange to be the guy. I would have loved Ossie to have been a success. But the reality,imho, is that we can do better with a different coach who knows how to defend without sacrificing our ability to attack or vice versa.

In my view it will be a sad state of affairs if we squander our current enhanced status by backing the wrong guy. But I couldn’t understand the attraction of Brexit or Trump so what do I know 😉

I find it incomprehensible that apparently some of our supporters are suffering from an inability to apply context to various situations...

...on another note, and I am sure you did not intend it this way, but bringing up 'the attraction of Brexit/Trump' in some sort of 'comparison' with supporting Postecoglu getting another shot is really, really poor form - in fact, borderline insulting. Again, I suspect you did not see it as coming across that way when writing it??? Here's hoping, because if you did, well, it'll require some discussion amigo!
 
By learning and adapting.
That's the huge caveat - he needs to improve, the coaching needs to improve, the players need to improve.
The first few months of next season will show if anything more is there. If it's not, he goes in October.

We instinct is that he can't improve and will be gone in October. But the togetherness in the whole project shows me it needs the opportunity to rectify it's mistakes this season.
All managers learn and adapt. Look at conte with his attacking Napoli
 
Over 15 games?
Yes. I mean, "fluke" is the wrong word, but a poor team and a poorly managed team can win a cup, particularly when they get a good draw. I look at Southgate's England painfully crawling into the European championship final with poor performance after poor performance and then get utterly dominated by the first good team we faced. EVEN THEN, we equalised and had a short spell afterwards where we had them on the back foot and on another day could have won it!
 
It's been a disaster of a league season and a brilliant Europa League campaign.

The league is the bread and butter though. It's what gives most successful clubs the platform to win silverware. You can fluke yourself to a final. You can't fluke yourself to a decent league position.
Yet the route Ange took has given us more money than quite a few teams and also makes us a very attractive prospect.

Fluke to a final and cup win eh? Remarkable that we have done so in how many years. League form is dependent on squad injuries and strength. I have no problem with Ange's decision and Levy's support to focus on the Europa. I could see the joy and pride on their faces.
 
Who out of tottenham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine do you think will have a better upcoming season?

What, Saudi Sportswashing Machine? Or Emirates Marketing Project? Which one?

Out of either Saudi Sportswashing Machine, a Tottenham season will ALWAYS be better because it is not being underwritten by a sovereign fund who Uri Gellar their way through the rule books.

To answer your question in spirit you meant it, we will have a better season than Newcash. City? Who knows. Any club that can spend 180 million in the January window to limp into the top 4 race for the final day of the season can probablt spend 3-400 million and keep bending the rules to finish higher.
 
Yes. I mean, "fluke" is the wrong word, but a poor team and a poorly managed team can win a cup, particularly when they get a good draw. I look at Southgate's England painfully crawling into the European championship final with poor performance after poor performance and then get utterly dominated by the first good team we faced. EVEN THEN, we equalised and had a short spell afterwards where we had them on the back foot and on another day could have won it!

We're back to perspectives again aren't we. And if you insist on this perspective then you will, indeed, experience all angles of it...
 
What, Saudi Sportswashing Machine? Or Emirates Marketing Project? Which one?

Out of either Saudi Sportswashing Machine, a Tottenham season will ALWAYS be better because it is not being underwritten by a sovereign fund who Uri Gellar their way through the rule books.

To answer your question in spirit you meant it, we will have a better season than Newcash. City? Who knows. Any club that can spend 180 million in the January window to limp into the top 4 race for the final day of the season can probablt spend 3-400 million and keep bending the rules to finish higher.

@glasgowspur was saying we had a better season than Saudi Sportswashing Machine just as our trophy was better. I asked who will have a better upcoming season?

As for spending we spent more than Saudi Sportswashing Machine last summer.
 
And if you can't? I mean, y'know -given the fact he has a job, a job I know some people seem to think is not serious, but a job which sees him contracted to manage a co-host nation in the upcoming World Cup?
So again I'll ask, who do you bring in THIS summer?
Fabian Hurzeler would be my preference:
- Young (youngest head coach in PL)
- Brighton 8th and hard to beat (only 2 teams lost fewer games)
- Combines that solidity with expansive attacking play with very similar system to that used by Poch.
- Started in the youth academy at Bayern Munich so knows the culture required at an elite European level.
 
I'd quite like a journalist to ask him how he marries his thoughts about cup wins previously to now. Before he was quite dismissive (rightly) about the importance and long term effect of one. Now it seems to be what will keep him employed.
 
@glasgowspur was saying we had a better season than Saudi Sportswashing Machine just as our trophy was better. I asked who will have a better upcoming season?

As for spending we spent more than Saudi Sportswashing Machine last summer.

(sigh). OK. Again. We will have a better upcoming season. As for spending, well, there's a bit more to it. If they could they would and if they find out they can (if City skeeze it) then they will.
https://tbrfootball.com/its-hard-to...273m-ffp-breach-as-financial-penalty-looming/
 
Fabian Hurzeler would be my preference:
- Young (youngest head coach in PL)
- Brighton 8th and hard to beat (only 2 teams lost fewer games)
- Combines that solidity with expansive attacking play with very similar system to that used by Poch.
- Started in the youth academy at Bayern Munich so knows the culture required at an elite European level.

Hurzler currently has an overall career total 46.53% win rate.
Postecoglu currently has an overall career total of 52.94
One is certainly younger, one is certainly older.
How would Hurzler do with the pressure which comes with this job?
Of all the managers I see touted, he'd be a very interesting choice, however if we ever took that route, we'd need more patience again.
 
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