Ange in or out?

[thfcsteff]

Weird take of narcism being the reason people come on here. We're spurs fans we like talking about spurs and football in general. We do it in the pub, we do at work, we do it in here. It's a semi form of entertainment. Something to do when we're bored. I don't see that as narcissistic.

That's a fair point. However I was more referring to social media [edit: I should've been clearer on that], which generally relies on a touch of it to engage. it also depends how defensive you are about the word. It's similar to using the word 'ignorant' which is sometimes very accurate yet causes offence. And, for that matter, hypocrisy. Humans have all those, it's just about degrees. Most people keep them in their rightful balances. Again, I am no different to anyone else.

 

[Muttley]

Weird take of narcism being the reason people come on here. We're spurs fans we like talking about spurs and football in general. We do it in the pub, we do at work, we do it in here. It's a semi form of entertainment. Something to do when we're bored. I don't see that as narcissistic.

Agree, a very strange describer of forum posters. In a previous job I worked for one (the CEO). I spent time with a couple of really good friends that were extremely qualified in such things. I did a fair bit of reading on the traits of a narcissist and I adapted my own behaviour. I'm an empath and of course narcissists lack empathy. I stopped fighting back realising that it catalyses their behaviour and makes it worse. They want to tame the wild horse and will just keep going, going, going. It's part of their process. I also learnt that the narcissist who is the one that is probably suffering the most. Narcissism can be a nurtured behaviour rather than being born that way. They can live their lives in pain.

I obviously got out of that company at a certain point and put it all down to experience.

In Steff's defence, what you do see on forums is narcissistic traits and there will of course be narcissists online. Most though are just genuine fans that have the best interests of the club at heart. That is why I'm very careful about judging people on negativity. Most of the time, they are saying the things on their mind that would give the club the most positive outcome. It is because they care. Firing Ange is absolutely one of those examples. It's not negative to me. It's actually someone being positive. The rest is the other person's perspective.

Unfortunately, I see traits I recognise in Ange as well. He has been gaslighting those journos for a while now. The grandiosity, the arrogance, the emotional instability etc. It is very common in football managers at this level. Jose was the worst. Klopp was really bad for gas lighting as well. Narcissism is actually very prominent in senior roles across all industries.

One theme I do love about Steff's recent comments is there is a time to take a day off of some topics we often discuss. Otherwise you don't enjoy those great little moments like winning 3-1 in a UEFA semi-final 1st leg.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Discussion?

No

 

[thfcsteff]

Agree, a very strange describer of forum posters. In a previous job I worked for one (the CEO). I spent time with a couple of really good friends that were extremely qualified in such things. I did a fair bit of reading on the traits of a narcissist and I adapted my own behaviour. I'm an empath and of course narcissists lack empathy. I stopped fighting back realising that it catalyses their behaviour and makes it worse. They want to tame the wild horse and will just keep going, going, going. It's part of their process. I also learnt that the narcissist who is the one that is probably suffering the most. Narcissism can be a nurtured behaviour rather than being born that way. They can live their lives in pain.

I obviously got out of that company at a certain point and put it all down to experience.

In Steff's defence, what you do see on forums is narcissistic traits and there will of course be narcissists online. Most though are just genuine fans that have the best interests of the club at heart. That is why I'm very careful about judging people on negativity. Most of the time, they are saying the things on their mind that would give the club the most positive outcome. It is because they care. Firing Ange is absolutely one of those examples. It's not negative to me. It's actually someone being positive. The rest is the other person's perspective.

Unfortunately, I see traits I recognise in Ange as well. He has been gaslighting those journos for a while now. The grandiosity, the arrogance, the emotional instability etc. It is very common in football managers at this level. Jose was the worst. Klopp was really bad for gas lighting as well. Narcissism is actually very prominent in senior roles across all industries.

One theme I do love about Steff's recent comments is there is a time to take a day off of some topics we often discuss. Otherwise you don't enjoy those great little moments like winning 3-1 in a UEFA semi-final 1st leg.

I think my big mistake here was not differentiating between 'forums' and 'social media' generally, albeit forums are a part of social media. I answered above on that, so won't repeat here.

With regards to narcissists and empaths, it is a long discussion. Maybe one day we'll get the chance to have it in person. If you're so inclined, I'd be up for discussing it in PM. Unfortunately, in the modern world, developed narcissistic traits get the biggest tangible rewards (your point about senior roles being full of them can be bumped up across world leaders, 'successful' businessman and powerbrokers. It depends on what you value; is it power? Is it money? Is it 'winning arguments'? Or is it living life, letting others live theirs, enjoying discussions where you can learn something sometimes? Anyway, one for a PM or a pub...

What I will add is that I don't judge negativity in isolation, but the repeated need to cycle negativity -especially when accompanied by incredulity that one doesn't agree/see their perspective- becomes an issue for me personally. And again, I have nothing wrong with perspectives, but there's ways to share them.

 

[Craig_J]

Perhaps it is 'preposterous' but I won't take the risk mate. I agree that the build-up to Bodø was excellent.

A small story...at the Champions League Final, in front of me were three guys a little older than me. They were singing anti-Liverpool songs relentlessly, and then looked up behind us at a small 'tier' of seats between ther levels. There were a few Asian fans in Liverpool shirts, and one with a Spurs shirt. This saw them immediately start volleying off all sort of racist filth and further anti-Scouse sentiments (remember, we were in our FIRST EVER CL and the only songs they could sing were anti-Scouse). I'd been having a fudging great time with my mates until this wall of tossers. I leant into the main one, put my hands on him, and said 'this is out first EVER CL Final, channel the energy into being positive FFS, sing up for Tottenham' and brick like that. I think they were shocked because they at least stopped abusing the people up there...

...if we won, I would want to sing Postecoglu's name, not as a wind-up, now because I 'want him to stay' but because he would've been the manager when we won our first European trophy and UEFA/EuropaCup since 1984. I fear it might not be universally approved.

Perhaps that's on me Billy, and if so, well, that's on me. I am not prepared to take the chance.

What absoloute vermin. That's completely abbohrent any place, time or situation. But they choose our only ever CL final to start racially abusing people... even when one's got a Spurs shirt and we have Sonny in our team.

With Ange I don’t want to sound entitled in the slightest because IF (such a huge hypothetical) we won the Europa it would be only second trophy I’ve ever seen us win

But I don’t feel optimistic about the future with Ange. I think we have been found out and things have grown extremely stale.

Again, huge IF and I feel awful but if we win I don’t feel like we are going to start winning on a regular basis again.

First time 10 games were class but probably 100 games in I think it’s fair to judge Ange by what we ordinarily witness and it isn’t fun anymore

 

[thfcsteff]

What absoloute vermin. That's completely abbohrent any place, time or situation. But they choose our only ever CL final to start racially abusing people... even when one's got a Spurs shirt and we have Sonny in our team.

With Ange I don’t want to sound entitled in the slightest because IF (such a huge hypothetical) we won the Europa it would be only second trophy I’ve ever seen us win

But I don’t feel optimistic about the future with Ange. I think we have been found out and things have grown extremely stale.

Again, huge IF and I feel awful but if we win I don’t feel like we are going to start winning on a regular basis again.

First time 10 games were class but probably 100 games in I think it’s fair to judge Ange by what we ordinarily witness and it isn’t fun anymore

I agree. I think he's gone regardless, and I think it'll be mutual TBH.

 

[metalgear]

man u just lost to brentford.
i hope we get our new manager before they start hunting.

 

[Craig_J]

I agree. I think he's gone regardless, and I think it'll be mutual TBH.

Yeah. I think it’s best for him to go to somewhere he feels happier at. I think he’s always had a bit of an inferiority complex here and that it’s not a good match for a club with its own inferiority complex

With us we are often the but of the jokes and the media love to kick us when we are down. I don’t think fiery personalities are suited to our club

 

[billyiddo]

man u just lost to brentford.
i hope we get our new manager before they start hunting.

Did you not see what their team looked like?

 

[Bishop]

Did you not see what their team looked like?

They are perfectly capable of those performances and results no matter who starts. They are brick.

 

[Craig_J]

If we win the EL which is still in the process of IF, if we do then I will be the first skipping for weeks and loving the fact we have won it, people keep acting like people won't take joy in it because they don't believe in the manager. Its such an odd take.

Its not a hard concept.......

Dare I say a chance to play in a European Super cup as well…

 

[billyiddo]

They are perfectly capable of those performances and results no matter who starts. They are brick.

Yes but results like that when you are fielding a scratch team don't heighten pressure on the manager which is what metalgear was inferring with his post

 

[Jurgen the German]

I am really conflicted tbh. I would love a trophy. But if it means him staying on, I think I would choose him leaving first. The league is where it's at ultimately and his inability to deal with that speaks volumes. With a better manager, our improved recruitment and bigger spending power, I think the future is bright.

I fear if Ange wins the EL everyone will be on a high and forget how dreadful the season has been otherwise. Like what happened to Ten Hag after the FA cup win last season. But I so want to win the EL too!

I totally get what you’re saying. You would rather another manager take the team on and hopefully win the Europa league than Ange staying and winning it and we almost have no choice but to keep him going into next season. I 100% agree. He needs to go regardless of the outcome of the Europa league. He’s out of his depth in this league and we pick up never ending injuries. Not to mention the constant digs at the fans, bringing up the Emirates Marketing Project game from last season again a couple of weeks ago when they were was no justification or reason to do so.

 

[Grays_1890]

I reckon he will start to turn them around after his own summer. Their squad is absolutely abysmal

 

[monkeybarry]

So you’d like us to fire the manager who won our first European trophy in 30 years, our first trophy of any kind in 17 years, the guy who’s won in literally every job he’s had…all so we can replace him the bloke from Bournemouth who’s got a 39% win record and won the Cypriot Super Cup in 2018.

The grass is always greener and all that.

That a very blinkered view.
The PL and EL are very clearly different competitions, with different standards and need different tools.

Even if we lose on Thurs, a EL semi is still a very successful campaign - and I'll applaud Ange and the team for it. Indeed it fits perfectly with Ange's career - win with a high quality team in a very mixed ability.

Conversely, we'll finish 15-17th in the Lge - that is entirely unacceptable and shows no signs of change. That is a sacking and decisions made re: some players futures. The PL is a very high quality field across 16/17 teams. We are at the bottom end of that under Ange's management.

 

[Mikey10]

That a very blinkered view.
The PL and EL are very clearly different competitions, with different standards and need different tools.

Even if we lose on Thurs, a EL semi is still a very successful campaign - and I'll applaud Ange and the team for it. Indeed it fits perfectly with Ange's career - win with a high quality team in a very mixed ability.

Conversely, we'll finish 15-17th in the Lge - that is entirely unacceptable and shows no signs of change. That is a sacking and decisions made re: some players futures. The PL is a very high quality field across 16/17 teams. We are at the bottom end of that under Ange's management.

38 points from 35 games, lest we forget.

 

[Lilbaz]

That's a fair point. However I was more referring to social media [edit: I should've been clearer on that], which generally relies on a touch of it to engage. it also depends how defensive you are about the word. It's similar to using the word 'ignorant' which is sometimes very accurate yet causes offence. And, for that matter, hypocrisy. Humans have all those, it's just about degrees. Most people keep them in their rightful balances. Again, I am no different to anyone else.

Not really defensive. Just that it means an extreme focus on oneself, so doesn't really fit.
We are all ignorant of something and can be hypocrits at times.

Anyway back to football.

 

[thfcsteff]

Not really defensive. Just that it means an extreme focus on oneself, so doesn't really fit.
We are all ignorant of something and can be hypocrits at times.

Anyway back to football.

We're getting into philosophy here perhaps. I think there's a dialectic here: I agree with your overview on misuse in this case and think that shades of it are increasingly part of modern life and social media, where the cult of the individual is continually farmed and rewarded.

Interesting discussion TBH...

 

[monkeybarry]

38 points from 35 games, lest we forget.

Place, Villa and Brighton left - will we make the magic 40?
I wouldn't place a bet on it.

 

[SteveAWOL]

38 points from 35 games, lest we forget.

Thank feck there’s only 38 league games in a season nowadays, as not only would most of our team be run into the ground but over the past 42 matches we’ve lost 24 of them which is the worst in the entire top division and more defeats than we suffered even when we got relegated in 1976/77!

Last 42 PL games: Won 13 Dawn 5 Lost 24 For 72 Against 73

1976/77 in Div 1: Won 12 Dawn 9 Lost 21 For 48 Against 72