Ange in or out?

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I think he is class
But… he would be inheriting a squad that needs more players
No matter who would come in the issues there

Our first team is pretty average when you look at it.

Porro Udogie, not good full backs. Romero isnt great as most people think he is, he's rash, injury prone and makes mistakes a lot. vDv very error prone

Midfield Sarr and bissouma are hit and miss. Bentancur no where near the same player since his serious injury.

Son, class on his day but once in a blue moon

Johnson is average at best
Werner is toilet
Solanke is just a Darren bent
Kulu is overrated and holds onto the ball far too long every single game

When Ange says he can't improve the first team much then I know he's got to go. We can improve EVERY single position. Not one of our players gets into Liverpool Arsenals, City or Chelsea's team.

Maybe Vicario but that's from a spurs fan, outside most fans think he's brick too

 

[Muttley]

Sadly this is true. Yesterday, as you noted in the match thread, we had our CBs defending high up the pitch and wide. Mad stuff. Dragusin got a booking in that area of the pitch and Gray lost it there and conceded a decent chance.

F**k me, when I was coaching kids, I was always telling the CBs, you do not get wider than the width of the box unless absolutely necessary and if you do, someone has to fill in for you. The shape of the team is a real worry at times.

Be interesting to see what Romero and VDV would have done with MGW coming at them. My guess is that one of them would have stepped out whilst the other would have held the line. With Dragu and Gray, both held. I don't think there's a right or wrong though. I've certainly seen Romero called rash when he's taken responsibility and stepped out, made a foul and got the yellow.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Be interesting to see what Romero and VDV would have done with MGW coming at them. My guess is that one of them would have stepped out whilst the other would have held the line. With Dragu and Gray, both held. I don't think there's a right or wrong though. I've certainly seen Romero called rash when he's taken responsibility and stepped out, made a foul and got the yellow.

The right way is for one to go out
The CBS did just that earlier in the game and actually the saw Drago get a card so that may be why…

 

[veryoldspur]

Our first team is pretty average when you look at it.

Porro Udogie, not good full backs. Romero isnt great as most people think he is, he's rash, injury prone and makes mistakes a lot. vDv very error prone

Midfield Sarr and bissouma are hit and miss. Bentancur no where near the same player since his serious injury.

Son, class on his day but once in a blue moon

Johnson is average at best
Werner is toilet
Solanke is just a Darren bent
Kulu is overrated and holds onto the ball far too long every single game

When Ange says he can't improve the first team much then I know he's got to go. We can improve EVERY single position. Not one of our players gets into Liverpool Arsenals, City or Chelsea's team.

Maybe Vicario but that's from a spurs fan, outside most fans think he's brick too

I think some of our players coached properly and used properly under a better manager would be better

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I think some of our players coached properly and used properly under a better manager would be better

That could be true, yes. But under Ange he hasn't improved them or they've gone backwards in their growth imo.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Sadly this is true. Yesterday, as you noted in the match thread, we had our CBs defending high up the pitch and wide. Mad stuff. Dragusin got a booking in that area of the pitch and Gray lost it there and conceded a decent chance.

F**k me, when I was coaching kids, I was always telling the CBs, you do not get wider than the width of the box unless absolutely necessary and if you do, someone has to fill in for you. The shape of the team is a real worry at times.

like i said, watch the goal we conceded vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we had Romero and Vicario. Same outcome. It's not a player issue. our goals conceded are system issue.

 

[Gutter Boy]

and the same 18 month cycle would happen again

Not really. We dont have deadwood to get rid of (werner, regullion, forster etc are all out of contract) and all our players are high potential and will get better with coaching. A bit more tactical nous and we could quickly become a very good team

 

[Diamond Lights]

Our first team is pretty average when you look at it.

Porro Udogie, not good full backs. Romero isnt great as most people think he is, he's rash, injury prone and makes mistakes a lot. vDv very error prone

Midfield Sarr and bissouma are hit and miss. Bentancur no where near the same player since his serious injury.

Son, class on his day but once in a blue moon

Johnson is average at best
Werner is toilet
Solanke is just a Darren bent
Kulu is overrated and holds onto the ball far too long every single game

When Ange says he can't improve the first team much then I know he's got to go. We can improve EVERY single position. Not one of our players gets into Liverpool Arsenals, City or Chelsea's team.

Maybe Vicario but that's from a spurs fan, outside most fans think he's brick too

I'm quite quick to slander what i think is poor. But Slating Kulusevski and calling Solanke Darren Bent, mate. Behave. this is the sort of stuff we expect of AFTV fans on the other side.

Our issue is we dont sign established players. too many hit and hopes.

Son is a great example of the issues that have persisted at the club for too long. Instead of building depth and replacements we wait until the player has completely lost it for the most part and then scramble to fill the void. Son is a 32 year old winger, he shouldn't be starting every game and his best years are behind him. Now our alternative are two children on the bench. great planning.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I'm quite quick to slander what i think is poor. But Slating Kulusevski and calling Solanke Darren Bent, mate. Behave. this is the sort of stuff we expect of AFTV fans on the other side.

Our issue is we dont sign established players. too many hit and hopes.

Son is a great example of the issues that have persisted at the club for too long. Instead of building depth and replacements we wait until the player has completely lost it for the most part and then scramble to fill the void. Son is a 32 year old winger, he shouldn't be starting every game and his best years are behind him. Now our alternative are two children on the bench. great planning.

I dont think calling Solanke - Bent, is a bad thing, it's just his level. They are similar players. Bent scored goals but he was a mid table side (tbf we are mid table so probably where Solanke deserves to be).

Kulusevski I have never been a fan of. He holds onto the ball for far too long, never makes the quick pass, slows play down and gives away unneccesary free kicks which have lead to goals. The fact he scores goals make him to some Spurs fans, stand out as a contendor for Ballon' Dor but he wouldnt get into any of the "so called" top 4 sides Im afraid, IMO (Liv, Arse, City, Chelsea).

 

[harr1984]

I think some of our players coached properly and used properly under a better manager would be better

This old classic comes out every time people want a manager gone Romero never made rash decisions before Ange came along did he? Porro was a great defender before clueless Ange turned up. Kulu was a much better player before Ange got hold of him. It's Anges fault Son has aged lost his speed and can't beat a player to save his life anymore etc etc....

 

[Diamond Lights]

Completely disagree but each to their own, for me he's the only one capable of getting into any other major team.

Anyway, back to the Ange discussion.

One thing that is overlooked frequently when people clamour to point out our injury crisis... is that both Romero and VDV we rushed back by Ange. It wasn't anyone else's call but his own. He could have gone into the Chelsea match starting ONE of them, but to start both was incredibly risky and both had injury set backs. For all the bemoaning of our bad luck to injuries, we are letting Ange off on this one entirely. Was an unnecessary risk to take and we're paying for it now. If just ONE of those players was benched or not rushed back for the game, they would be featuring right now.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Completely disagree but each to their own, for me he's the only one capable of getting into any other major team.

Anyway, back to the Ange discussion.

One thing that is overlooked frequently when people clamour to point out our injury crisis... is that both Romero and VDV we rushed back by Ange. It wasn't anyone else's call but his own. He could have gone into the Chelsea match starting ONE of them, but to start both was incredibly risky and both had injury set backs. For all the bemoaning of our bad luck to injuries, we are letting Ange off on this one entirely. Was an unnecessary risk to take and we're paying for it now. If just ONE of those players was benched or not rushed back for the game, they would be featuring right now.

I get that and thats why I dont jump on people's opinions, it is their judgement as is mine. Maybe I have very high expectations (no idea why) but I want my winger to be someone like Saka who plays well every single game. I saw on Twitter last season that a Spurs fan said Kulesevski was as good, if not better than Saka and I had to pull him in and say what are you talking about. He is no where near the level of Saka and thats what we need.

We dont have a game changer like Saka or a match winner. We dont have any match winners currently they look like championship players.

Ange, yes he rushed back the players but can see why he did because he needed them. Alas, our record against Chelsea is appalling anyway so he should have played others.

However, even with VDV and Romero we are an absolute liability anyway, one because Romero is rubbish, and two because of Ange's tactics that others have said, we could have Saliba and Van Dijk in our back 2 but wed be torn apart.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I dont think calling Solanke - Bent, is a bad thing, it's just his level. They are similar players. Bent scored goals but he was a mid table side (tbf we are mid table so probably where Solanke deserves to be).

Kulusevski I have never been a fan of. He holds onto the ball for far too long, never makes the quick pass, slows play down and gives away unneccesary free kicks which have lead to goals. The fact he scores goals make him to some Spurs fans, stand out as a contendor for Ballon' Dor but he wouldnt get into any of the "so called" top 4 sides Im afraid, IMO (Liv, Arse, City, Chelsea).

Come on mate, own it. You didn't say he was Darren Bent. You said he was "just a Darren Bent". It was a derogatory reference.

And, let's be honest, although Bent wasn't a bad striker by any stretch, he was poor with us.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Come on mate, own it. You didn't say he was Darren Bent. You said he was "just a Darren Bent". It was a derogatory reference.

And, let's be honest, although Bent wasn't a bad striker by any stretch, he was poor with us.

Oh yes not saying it wasnt derogatory at all, it is derogatory but thats how i see them both. They are similar levels mate. Bent did a job, but not one for a top four side which we are aiming to be. Similar to Solanke.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Oh yes not saying it wasnt derogatory at all, it is derogatory but thats how i see them both. They are similar levels mate. Bent did a job, but not one for a top four side which we are aiming to be. Similar to Solanke.

They're very, very different players. If Bent didn't score, he did nothing. Solanke brings a lot of other attributes to the party. He's nowhere near Harry Kane level but he could easily play in a side that achieves top 4.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

They're very, very different players. If Bent didn't score, he did nothing. Solanke brings a lot of other attributes to the party. He's nowhere near Harry Kane level but he could easily play in a side that achieves top 4.

Ok, then why did Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd not go in for Solanke? Arsenal needed a striker?
Why was it Saudi Sportswashing Machine that only went in for Maddison?
Why did we not go in for Declan Rice?
Why did we sign Werner and no one else wanted him?

We buy players that no one from the top four wants, or would get into their side. Solanke would not get into any of those sides and if you believe he would then, ok that's fine, but no one wanted him, in fact, he played for two of those sides and couldnt hit a barn door.

My point is we buy cheap, and players that MAY get better or have a point to prove (Solanke, Richarlison). When was the last time we overspent on someone who had dominated a league and a good one? I cant think of anyone.

Ange has accepted these players and its ok if thats the way you want to go, but we are never challenging anyone with any of the players we sign. In fact we are mid table and closer to a relegation fight than we are top four, so we are going backwards, and our signings are too.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Ok, then why did Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd not go in for Solanke? Arsenal needed a striker?
Why was it Saudi Sportswashing Machine that only went in for Maddison?
Why did we not go in for Declan Rice?
Why did we sign Werner and no one else wanted him?

We buy players that no one from the top four wants, or would get into their side. Solanke would not get into any of those sides and if you believe he would then, ok that's fine, but no one wanted him, in fact, he played for two of those sides and couldnt hit a barn door.

My point is we buy cheap, and players that MAY get better or have a point to prove (Solanke, Richarlison). When was the last time we overspent on someone who had dominated a league and a good one? I cant think of anyone.

Ange has accepted these players and its ok if thats the way you want to go, but we are never challenging anyone with any of the players we sign. In fact we are mid table and closer to a relegation fight than we are top four, so we are going backwards, and our signings are too.

Whether he gets into those teams or not doesn't mean he isn't good enough for a side that finishes top 4. We finished there with Peter Crouch. Villa finished there with Ollie Watkins, Woolwich finished there with Gabriel Jesus. I'd also have to say that Solanke is better than Jackson at Chelsea, Nunez at Liverpool and Chris Wood at Forest. Parts of his game are better than Jesus and Haaland too.

We could easily achieve top 4 with Solanke - he isn't our biggest issue by a long, long way. He's actually been one the few success stories this season.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You’ll be relieved to see that we’re the 10th best PL team of 2024 and whilst 50 points is our worst annual haul since 2008 it’s hopefully an omen that we’re going to win the League Cup.

View attachment 18320

Premier League - Annual table

This statistic shows the calendar year table 2024 in the Premier League. It calculates all points won by the teams between January 1st and December 31st.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Are we 10th because 6 teams by virtue of promotion and relegation can't accumulate that many points?

 

[Yiddo]

Second season in a row where we have lost a lot of important players to injuries, this is on the coaching team and not just coincidence. I suppose this is what happens when your training is ran by a load of amateurs.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I honestly don't know if sacking him now or waiting until the summer is for the better or worse but I don't really believe that we can get a good option for the right now that also works in the long term.

As much as I've been critical I do think Ange can make some small alterations and turn things around.

I've never wanted any manager sacked (other than Mourinho) but I just need to see progress. I don't need perfection I just need to see an ability to learn from your mistakes, taking what's already happened and devising schemes to combat the failings. Ange doesn't or won't do that but as I've said quite few times I don't think he's a million miles away with some adjustments so I guess maybe a bit naively I'm hoping that he will begin to make adjustments and that would be the ideal solution for me rather than trying to bring in another coach.

It probably likely that many a manager we would be interested in wouldn't be available until the end of the season anyway. Or there would at least be more potential choices.

So that said, Ange may as well remain and at least get a period of time where most of the squad comes back fit (although by nature fresh injuries are always happening) and we can see if an upward curve of performances and progress returns. (Although thinking about it....it didn't last season after the main guys returned)