Ange in or out?

[Mikey10]

The media are going to spin brick whichever way they decide will get clicks. And that is mostly negative. He could be Prince fudging Charming, they’ll still absolutely come for him.

If he's winning games that's a lot less likely. They were gving him nothing but praise for months, to be fair - and even on a bad run there has (until very recently) been relatively little criticism.

And there is a power dynamic at play when a manager reacts like that to a reporter doing their job. The question Ange took umbarage with at the weekend was perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I said on here a few weeks ago that I reckoned the club should have been giving him more help with how he deals with interviews. The way he's handling them now only serves to increase the pressure on himself, although on a human I can fully understand why he's finding the encounters with the press tough at present.

 

[Muttley]

If he's winning games that's a lot less likely. They were gving him nothing but praise for months, to be fair - and even on a bad run there has (until very recently) been relatively little criticism.

And there is a power dynamic at play when a manager reacts like that to a reporter doing their job. The question Ange took umbarage with at the weekend was perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I said on here a few weeks ago that I reckoned the club should have been giving him more help with how he deals with interviews. The way he's handling them now only serves to increase the pressure on himself, although on a human I can fully understand why he's finding the encounters with the press tough at present.

lol - how very dare you ask me a good question about football? Do you know who I am?

He does need to grow up on the media side.

 

[Grays_1890]

lol - how very dare you ask me a good question about football? Do you know who I am?

He does need to grow up on the media side.

9/10 he is absolutely on point but he is def showing the wear and tear of a manager under pressure. The interview the other day with the "similar story" part he kicked off to, that def spiky

 

[tommysvr]

If he's winning games that's a lot less likely. They were gving him nothing but praise for months, to be fair - and even on a bad run there has (until very recently) been relatively little criticism.

And there is a power dynamic at play when a manager reacts like that to a reporter doing their job. The question Ange took umbarage with at the weekend was perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I said on here a few weeks ago that I reckoned the club should have been giving him more help with how he deals with interviews. The way he's handling them now only serves to increase the pressure on himself, although on a human I can fully understand why he's finding the encounters with the press tough at present.

They might have been giving him a little bit of praise but how short is your memory? "I'm just copying Pep, mate" and all that. He's actually probably very prickly because of what he mentioned recently. No one has taken him seriously since he arrived in Europe. He's been constantly written off by the idiots who write articles. Because he is Australian, he was given absolutely no chance by the press.

Remember this muppet?

The idea that you think he needs help with interviews is absolutely laughable. Geuinely laughed at it. How on earth are you in a position to decide he's finding the interviews tough, when he's been like that literally his entire career? Sounds like, as you always do, you're finding ways to fit something into your view of the situation.

 

[braineclipse]

If he's winning games that's a lot less likely. They were gving him nothing but praise for months, to be fair - and even on a bad run there has (until very recently) been relatively little criticism.

And there is a power dynamic at play when a manager reacts like that to a reporter doing their job. The question Ange took umbarage with at the weekend was perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I said on here a few weeks ago that I reckoned the club should have been giving him more help with how he deals with interviews. The way he's handling them now only serves to increase the pressure on himself, although on a human I can fully understand why he's finding the encounters with the press tough at present.

I don't think it increases the pressure. The pressure is because of results and to a lesser extent performances imo and little to nothing else.

I agree on understanding it on a human level. And I think he's handling it rather well, as well as can be expected or asked for.

He doesn't need help in dealing with the media. He needs a couple of wins. That's the only thing that changes things.

 

[Muttley]

9/10 he is absolutely on point but he is def showing the wear and tear of a manager under pressure. The interview the other day with the "similar story" part he kicked off to, that def spiky

I don't necessarily agree. He's evaded genuine football questions from day 1. He loves his philosophical answers and operating as the life coach to his bunch of boys. He has his canned answers as well. They all do.

There is no real straight talking when you think about it. He can often talk in riddles and evade the actual question. Pep is way more straight talking as an example.

 

[Baleforce]

It’s on the club to have all employees media trained.

Nobody should be saying anything of substance to the media at any point.

 

[veryoldspur]

Or just make life really difficult and uncomfortable for Levy at games. He’ll get sick of it eventually like Sugar did.

Those days we had passionate fans. I remember the entire stadium sing Sugar out songs. Now the stadium is full of middle class families and tourists who probably don't even know who Levy is. There was a protest the other week before one of the games, and less than 200 turned out for it. Levy probably doesn't even know he is unpopular

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't necessarily agree. He's evaded genuine football questions from day 1. He loves his philosophical answers and operating as the life coach to his bunch of boys. He has his canned answers as well. They all do.

There is no real straight talking when you think about it. He can often talk in riddles and evade the actual question. Pep is way more straight talking as an example.

I think he has been largely fine, I think he has also been a victim of sound bites to make him sound worse, I think he has had stuff made up that he said that he hasn't (been cases of that on here) and I also think he has been very spiky too.

Just my take like

 

[RunTMC]

It's always going to be hard to come out and state players have improved when we are going through the period we are . But this period has seen us blood some youngsters for who the experience will stand them in good stead for the future. Bergvall has definitely improved since he first got here, he was awful on his first game but is really coming into his own. Gray is classy anyway, but he has grown into a role that isn't his strongest and this will definitely help him when he does eventually move into midfield, and he has given minutes to Moore when available and will doubtlessly be better for it.

Kulu has definitely improved, and I actually think Dragusin has done well all in all but it should be remembered we have a lot of young players that are bound to have up and down form. Maddison is as he always has been - great at times, missing at other times which is why I don't think he has as many caps as he probably thinks he should. Again, one of Ange's biggest mistake was this leadership group - Like Son Maddison is just not a real leader, and Romero is not reliable for a few reasons either.....

I would add Sarr to the list of improved. Much better player now than he was say 2 years ago

 

[Mikey10]

They might have been giving him a little bit of praise but how short is your memory? "I'm just copying Pep, mate" and all that. He's actually probably very prickly because of what he mentioned recently. No one has taken him seriously since he arrived in Europe. He's been constantly written off by the idiots who write articles. Because he is Australian, he was given absolutely no chance by the press.

Remember this muppet?

The idea that you think he needs help with interviews is absolutely laughable. Geuinely laughed at it. How on earth are you in a position to decide he's finding the interviews tough, when he's been like that literally his entire career? Sounds like, as you always do, you're finding ways to fit something into your view of the situation.

It’s obviously a national characteristic, given the ongoing nature of your replies.

Clear that you’re not really into sensibly debating in a cordial tone so I won’t try in future.

 

[Muttley]

I would add Sarr to the list of improved. Much better player now than he was say 2 years ago

Huge grey area with this one. Has he improved much more than he was going to improve organically?

I wrote the other day that he is not being coached well enough, as we keep seeing the same mistakes from him i.e. over committing and getting himself caught ahead of play. He's a massive reason there have been gaps through the centre of our midfield. Saying that, I also laid portion of that blame to the manager and tactical system. It perhaps sets him up for failure.

 

[Finney Is Back]

A slightly different question. Has a manager ever fallen this low, and then turned it round? I guess Ferguson's United flirted with relegation at the end of the 80s. But has there been anything more recent? Or does the spiral of decline always get its man?

Eddie Howe's Saudi Sportswashing Machine weren't far away. They had similar injury issues and a really bad run. They ended up exiting Europe, getting players back and turning it around. In that sense they benefited from exiting Europe, whereas I don't think anyone on here wants us to do the same?

 

[Finney Is Back]

August:
Leicester (A) - D 1-1
Everton (H) - W 4-0

September:
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (A) - L 1-2
Arsenal (H) - L 0-1
Brentford (H) - W 3-1
Man Utd (A) - W 3-0

October:
Brighton (A) - L 2-3
West Ham (H) - W 4-1
Palace (A) - L 0-1

November:
Villa (H) - W 4-1
Ipswich (H) - L 1-2
Emirates Marketing Project (A) - W 4-0

So don't know where you are getting 10 wins before November from. Unless you're counting atuff like stealing a win from Coventry in the cup and beating "Farmers-r-us" in Europa. It has been basically a 50/50 win and loss ratio from the start with our record up to your cut off bring:
P 9 W 4 D 1 L 4.

That's with a fresh and pretty much fully fit squad. Over the season that puts us on about 50 odd points....and probably about 10th. So like I said I think the injuries have turned an extremely poor season into a disastrous one, but he'd still have led us to one of our worst campaigns in years unless things picked up dramatically.

The results you show above equated to 19 points from 12 games so averages out to a 60 point season (enough for 7th last season)

Even your abbreviated period of 9 games shows 13 points which would be 54 points and not 50 if continued across the season (enough for 9th last season).

 

[braineclipse]

Eddie Howe's Saudi Sportswashing Machine weren't far away. They had similar injury issues and a really bad run. They ended up exiting Europe, getting players back and turning it around. In that sense they benefited from exiting Europe, whereas I don't think anyone on here wants us to do the same?

Not far away. But didn't fall quite as far in the league.

I don't want us exiting Europe, but maybe some of those more worried about relegation than me do?

But I do want to see if Ange can turn this around by getting some players back. And Howe at Saudi Sportswashing Machine is the closest example I could think of too.

 

[Bishop]

Huge grey area with this one. Has he improved much more than he was going to improve organically?

I wrote the other day that he is not being coached well enough, as we keep seeing the same mistakes from him i.e. over committing and getting himself caught ahead of play. He's a massive reason there have been gaps through the centre of our midfield. Saying that, I also laid portion of that blame to the manager and tactical system. It perhaps sets him up for failure.

I don't see these improvements other than Porro and Johnson. Otherwise we are just seeing the natural progression of players. Like I keep seeing people saying Kulu improved but he's literally just back at the level he was when he joined us. Have people actually forgotten how good when was at the time and how poor he became subsequently?

 

[braineclipse]

Huge grey area with this one. Has he improved much more than he was going to improve organically?

I wrote the other day that he is not being coached well enough, as we keep seeing the same mistakes from him i.e. over committing and getting himself caught ahead of play. He's a massive reason there have been gaps through the centre of our midfield. Saying that, I also laid portion of that blame to the manager and tactical system. It perhaps sets him up for failure.

Most managers who get credit for developing players get credit for developing younger players with potential to develop organically.

Succesfully developing young players with potential is key for any manager here, where we are now at least.

Did we see those same errors earlier in the season and last season? I don't think it's mostly any of those things you list, coaching, manager or tactics. I think it's fatigue, not in him specifically, but in the team - making our pressing disjointed and easier to play through.

 

[Muttley]

Most managers who get credit for developing players get credit for developing younger players with potential to develop organically.

Succesfully developing young players with potential is key for any manager here, where we are now at least.

Did we see those same errors earlier in the season and last season? I don't think it's mostly any of those things you list, coaching, manager or tactics. I think it's fatigue, not in him specifically, but in the team - making our pressing disjointed and easier to play through.

That's fair. I get the disjointed thing, but there will always be times when your team mates aren't in role correctly. That is what he needs to learn as you don't do the same thing then.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't see these improvements other than Porro and Johnson. Otherwise we are just seeing the natural progression of players. Like I keep seeing people saying Kulu improved but he's literally just back at the level he was when he joined us. Have people actually forgotten how good when was at the time and how poor he became subsequently?

By that logic very few players have improved at clubs all over the world, it is all just natural progression.

When Willian had that really good season at Fulham after the really bad one at Arsenal, it was nothing to do with Silva, Willian had just got back to the level he was at before Arsenal when at Chelsea.

 

[RunTMC]

Huge grey area with this one. Has he improved much more than he was going to improve organically?

I wrote the other day that he is not being coached well enough, as we keep seeing the same mistakes from him i.e. over committing and getting himself caught ahead of play. He's a massive reason there have been gaps through the centre of our midfield. Saying that, I also laid portion of that blame to the manager and tactical system. It perhaps sets him up for failure.

I think he’s improved a lot but that’s not to say he can’t continue improving. He’s not the finished article and still has areas to work on which you e mentioned.

When I think back to last year he was playing well when the team were playing well. His level dropped when the team dropped. This year there have been games where he’s single handedly come in and drive the team forward when the team was struggling.

On the technical side if you look at his shooting the last couple of years, he always pulled it weak to the keepers right. This years he hits the target far more frequently, and with power.

I’ve definitely seen improvements in his game but there’s more to work on. The main one for me is more consistency in his performances.