Ange in or out?

[billyiddo]

Munn was city group too as was Ange

Yeah I couldn't remember if they were at the same place or different clubs or not

 

[Bishop]

There is no doubt that many other coaches would have us better off. Even Ange's supporters would have to concede that. The rationale for keeping Ange is only two-fold in my view:

1. You're weary of changing managers every 18 months
2. You think he can ride out this storm and the long term contains more "first half v Brighton" performances than "second half v Brighton" performances.

I don't even think I believe that.

I'm deffo tired of firing coaches and I do believe a coach should be given time but when I look at what I see, my doubts regarding Ange just continue to grow. Initially I thought he was brave to play the way he wants to with the squad of players he had, but the lack of adjustment and his unwillingness to compromise just jars me. I want a tactically aware and astute coach. Someone who can maximise our squad at all times and I'm begining to believe that Ange isn't that guy.

I guess I'm in a place where I just don't know, I'm finding the performances all a bit too predictable and Ange doesn't seem able to turn an ok or a poor performance into wins or even draws and we are putting in a lot of poor performances.

I also hear the injuries argument but I don't really buy it. I wasn't convinced before the injuries and a lot of them seem somewhat self inflicted either through training or fatigue. I see the injury to Udogie as being a prime example, we had the opportunity to give him a rest and just didn't do it and now have the consequences. There is just a squad use naivety that is concerning.

Saying all of that I do like his general principles I do like the way he attempts to play football, I just think or should I say know that we just don't have the calibre of player to action it. Will we buy the players necessary I dunno but I guess that is where I stand. An Ange with a top class squad could do very, very well, but I don't know if I believe we ever will have a top class squad under him.

 

[braineclipse]

I have had a bit of a think regarding the situation atm as it seems so out of the ordinary for us to be where we are in the table and seemingly there being no pressure on the manager from within and only noises from the club regarding it not being an intention to sack him - previous managers have all been let go while the team was in a better position. Why is that?

To me the most likely suggestion put forward that I have seen is that the Club considered that with a rebuild of this magnitude a season like this was going to be a potential outcome - people can do their own leg work but player turnover has been incredibly high these past two seasons and there has clearly been a focus within that to lower the average age of the squad - now i don't think this entirely excuses Ange of what we are seeing and i do think there are likely plenty of managers who would be doing a better job with the hand he has been dealt, so the only way I can square the club not making a change is because they are placing less importance on league position/performance than they have done previously and they are content to muddle through as the priority currently is squad (re)building.

I also think it's likely that Ange was in part chosen as the man to see us through this potentially rocky period rocky period because he's proven to be a person that his clubs supporters will get behind and his style of play, or attempted style of play, will be more acceptable than a Conte/Nuno/Mourinho and buy him & the club time to do what is requires - in some ways it's a bit of a masterstroke of an appointment because despite watching one of our worst ever seasons unfold there isn't really that much pressure on the manager from supporters.

With that in mind I'm going to take a 'bigger picture' view to the rest of the season.

Full agreement.

We're heading in a good direction with player recruitment and development it seems. If it turns out Ange isn't the righ man to take us forward that's not a disaster. But for now let's see what he can do with some players back, hopefully a signing or two and a bit of time.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The club may just have decidied not to panic yet. I would assume there is an unspoken trigger for considering his position. Clearly that is not yet. The next 4 weeks (cups and league) might change that position.

Maybe just the shame of having to admit they've appointed a 4th absolute dud of a manager in a row

 

[Yiddo]

We will never sign big money players on big wages as we have been fudged over by it with Ndombele. Everyone moaned about not spending the big cash and big wages and when Levy finally plucked up the courage to do it and stepped out of his comfort zone to back the manager with a top player the manager wanted it back fired. I don’t blame Levy for being cautious on big wage players.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't even think I believe that.

I'm deffo tired of firing coaches and I do believe a coach should be given time but when I look at what I see, my doubts regarding Ange just continue to grow. Initially I thought he was brave to play the way he wants to with the squad of players he had, but the lack of adjustment and his unwillingness to compromise just jars me. I want a tactically aware and astute coach. Someone who can maximise our squad at all times and I'm begining to believe that Ange isn't that guy.

I guess I'm in a place where I just don't know, I'm finding the performances all a bit too predictable and Ange doesn't seem able to turn an ok or a poor performance into wins or even draws and we are putting in a lot of poor performances.

I also hear the injuries argument but I don't really buy it. I wasn't convinced before the injuries and a lot of them seem somewhat self inflicted either through training or fatigue. I see the injury to Udogie as being a prime example, we had the opportunity to give him a rest and just didn't do it and now have the consequences. There is just a squad use naivety that is concerning.

Saying all of that I do like his general principles I do like the way he attempts to play football, I just think or should I say know that we just don't have the calibre of player to action it. Will we buy the players necessary I dunno but I guess that is where I stand. An Ange with a top class squad could do very, very well, but I don't know if I believe we ever will have a top class squad under him.

Agree with that but I should have been clearer. Anyone wanting to keep Ange is subscribing to one of those two reasons (maybe both but certainly one). Personally, I've got massive doubts he can turn this around. I don't think he will and I think he'll leave here having not even met my expectations (i.e. that he'd have a similar record to Martin Jol by finishing top 6 consistently). However, I'm willing to stick with him until at least the end of the season because I'm fed up going through the same cycle and hoping that maybe I'm wrong about Ange.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't even think I believe that.

I'm deffo tired of firing coaches and I do believe a coach should be given time but when I look at what I see, my doubts regarding Ange just continue to grow. Initially I thought he was brave to play the way he wants to with the squad of players he had, but the lack of adjustment and his unwillingness to compromise just jars me. I want a tactically aware and astute coach. Someone who can maximise our squad at all times and I'm begining to believe that Ange isn't that guy.

I guess I'm in a place where I just don't know, I'm finding the performances all a bit too predictable and Ange doesn't seem able to turn an ok or a poor performance into wins or even draws and we are putting in a lot of poor performances.

I also hear the injuries argument but I don't really buy it. I wasn't convinced before the injuries and a lot of them seem somewhat self inflicted either through training or fatigue. I see the injury to Udogie as being a prime example, we had the opportunity to give him a rest and just didn't do it and now have the consequences. There is just a squad use naivety that is concerning.

Saying all of that I do like his general principles I do like the way he attempts to play football, I just think or should I say know that we just don't have the calibre of player to action it. Will we buy the players necessary I dunno but I guess that is where I stand. An Ange with a top class squad could do very, very well, but I don't know if I believe we ever will have a top class squad under him.

He did want to rest Udogie but the since red card is why he didn’t
Of course his hamstring may have given next game

 

[NLS]

I am still Ange in but fully accept lots of the criticism from people who want him out.....

It may have been mentioned before on here but if we hadn't had that 10 game unbeaten run we might not be in the situation we are now.... Ange got three manager of the month awards in a row I think, we were top of the league and he must have thought that his playing style would work.....

Injuries gave him an excuse as to why it stopped working after the chelscum game and he became too entrenched in his tactics.... Being a pundit during the euros last summer further inflated his ego and kept him on what now looks to be a destructive path.

COYS

 

[Kandi1977]

I would not rule out Man United now

Seems like their unbelievable luck is back. Should have lost by 3-4 goals to Southampton, wins 3-1 with 2 goals in added time. Sickening!

 

[mudshark]

The club may just have decided not to panic yet. I would assume there is an unspoken trigger for considering his position. Clearly that is not yet. The next 4 weeks (cups and league) might change that position.

Personally, I just don't think anyone involved wants the headache of having to replace him right now -- potentially having to deal with another protracted period of knockbacks etc., unless things get so acutely bad as to force their hand (in which case, there's always Ryan Mason). Given the state of the bottom five, I don't think our getting drawn into a proper relegation dogfight is a very serious prospect right at the moment, so they feel able to keep the powder dry. If the clubs below us do start to pick up points at a faster rate (especially once it's clear we're not winning a pot), then it'll be a different story IMV.

 

[metalgear]

its more like a cancer rather than a headache - the faster we get back on track to top 5 standards, the better for everyone - attracting new players, developing our young ones and establishing a winning mentality

 

[Raziel]

Great post. What I'm hoping is happening is that Levy didn't hire Ange in the first place. I'm hoping that it is Munn that is holding his nerve.

In fact, I hope I never see Levy hire or fire a manager ever again. He had his chance to run football ops and was hopeless at it. He needs to remain upstairs as CEO and stay out of this situation. The time to make a change will be the summer, if at all. Let's be fair to Ange and see whether he can get us back on track in the league.

The issue is the longer Ange stays in with these results, the more Munn is putting his own neck on the line.

We are now at the point that if Ange doesn't win a trophy and recover some league position, Munn's judgement has to be questioned.

That's why personally I think Ange has until the 2nd leg against Liverpool, if the brick form continues and we get bounced by Liverpool (and honestly who sees anything but that happening), he's out.

 

[Muttley]

The issue is the longer Ange stays in with these results, the more Munn is putting his own neck on the line.

We are now at the point that if Ange doesn't win a trophy and recover some league position, Munn's judgement has to be questioned.

That's why personally I think Ange has until the 2nd leg against Liverpool, if the brick form continues and we get bounced by Liverpool (and honestly who sees anything but that happening), he's out.

I hope not. That would be like sacking the guy after an away NLD when you have 6 or 7 first teamers out.

We might have a 1-0 lead, but we're not favourites at Anfield. The expected outcome even with the 1st team would be to go out of that cup.

I hope we don't, but if we do let Ange go, I hope we do it with some class. He's one of the good guys in the game.

I just hope VDV and Romero are close to returning. That is what Ange and us need most right now, along with Bentancur being available for the unforeseeable.

 

[Mikey10]

Maybe just the shame of having to admit they've appointed a 4th absolute dud of a manager in a row

Don't forget Stellini. Not permanent, but a gargantuan f uck-up all the same.

 

[billyiddo]

Don't forget Stellini. Not permanent, but a gargantuan f uck-up all the same.

Conte didn't leave us much choice being that he walked away

 

[Mikey10]

Conte didn't leave us much choice being that he walked away

Given the way in which Conte left it was particularly mad to appoint his friend, confidante and right-hand man.

 

[billyiddo]

Given the way in which Conte left it was particularly mad to appoint his friend, confidante and right-hand man.

Well it meant less disruption i guess, him and the rest of the coaching team were already there - shame Pleat wasn't 20.years younger

 

[Raziel]

I hope not. That would be like sacking the guy after an away NLD when you have 6 or 7 first teamers out.

We might have a 1-0 lead, but we're not favourites at Anfield. The expected outcome even with the 1st team would be to go out of that cup.

I hope we don't, but if we do let Ange go, I hope we do it with some class. He's one of the good guys in the game.

I just hope VDV and Romero are close to returning. That is what Ange and us need most right now, along with Bentancur being available for the unforeseeable.

But the point is he isn't being sacked after a NLD, or a 6-3 loss at home to Liverpool, or losing to Ipswich with pretty much his full team.

If Ange gets sacked it's because this season he has the worst record of a Spurs side to this point in a season in the PL era, it's because post the first 10 games in charge, our form has been miserable, and this despite 300M in investments for players, on the back of already having players like Romero, Bentancur, Porro, Deki, Son in the squad.

I like Ange, and when they do, to your point I hope it's done as best as you can, but he, more than any Spurs manager I can remember, will have the least to complain about re why.

 

[Robspur12]

I have had a bit of a think regarding the situation atm as it seems so out of the ordinary for us to be where we are in the table and seemingly there being no pressure on the manager from within and only noises from the club regarding it not being an intention to sack him - previous managers have all been let go while the team was in a better position. Why is that?

To me the most likely suggestion put forward that I have seen is that the Club considered that with a rebuild of this magnitude a season like this was going to be a potential outcome - people can do their own leg work but player turnover has been incredibly high these past two seasons and there has clearly been a focus within that to lower the average age of the squad - now i don't think this entirely excuses Ange of what we are seeing and i do think there are likely plenty of managers who would be doing a better job with the hand he has been dealt, so the only way I can square the club not making a change is because they are placing less importance on league position/performance than they have done previously and they are content to muddle through as the priority currently is squad (re)building.

I also think it's likely that Ange was in part chosen as the man to see us through this potentially rocky period rocky period because he's proven to be a person that his clubs supporters will get behind and his style of play, or attempted style of play, will be more acceptable than a Conte/Nuno/Mourinho and buy him & the club time to do what is requires - in some ways it's a bit of a masterstroke of an appointment because despite watching one of our worst ever seasons unfold there isn't really that much pressure on the manager from supporters.

With that in mind I'm going to take a 'bigger picture' view to the rest of the season.

Great post Bill. I disagree with the clubs reasoning if true though. Ange, IMHO, is not the man to take this team forward for multiple reasons that have already been well articulated. If that is the case, then as the rebuild is taking place you need the right guy to embed his philosophy even if we suffer a dip in the early stages. Building towards success is usually incremental and starts as early as possible with the “right” guy in charge.