Ange in or out?

[Lilbaz]

And you don't think there is any budgetary limit involved in putting together those 'options'?! Let's be clear. No ONE person signs the players at THFC.

Ofcourse there is a budgetary limit. When did i say there wasn't?
The scouting team will give options within those limits and whom are likely to join us.
Not sure what you are trying to argue?

 

[thfcsteff]

Ofcourse there is a budgetary limit. When did i say there wasn't?
The scouting team will give options within those limits and whom are likely to join us.
Not sure what you are trying to argue?

You didn't mention that in your initial post; if that is because you were paraphrasing Postecoglu, I wanted to point out to you that your post lacked an important fact. So no arguing, just making sure you knew...which you have now made clear you did!

 

[Mrs Vert]

PSG is gonna have a field day with us come Aug

 

[Baleforce]

PSG is gonna have a field day with us come Aug

half a chance a few of them are purchased over the summer

 

[Bishop]

It’s why it’s not an excuse
But part what happens
Even to the extremes

But people have been using the injuries as an excuse for the performances and the results when the reality is they are a byproduct of the nature of a physical sport. If we lose I don't wanna hear brick about injuries, they are irrelevant, every team has injuries, it's how you cope with them that tells a story.

 

[Bishop]

Indeed!
He'a buying when it suits an argument or viewpoint...honestly, this whole discussion feels like a giant waste of time because deep down we all know what is likely to happen...

He claimed he has final say on all players coming and going from the club. That's different to every previous manager who have said there has been an element of club purchases (which matches what we know about things have been transfer for over a decade now).

So if Ange himself is taking claim for all transfer business we do have to take him at his word. It means he the full credit for the success but also the corn for the failures or the gaps in the squad.

 

[thfcsteff]

He claimed he has final say on all players coming and going from the club. That's different to every previous manager who have said there has been an element of club purchases (which matches what we know about things have been transfer for over a decade now).

Do if Ange himself is taking claim for all transfer business we do have to take him at his word. It means he the full credit for the success but also the corn for the failures or the gaps in the squad.

All our managers have had 'final say'. That does not mean they have always got close to their first choices. I feel confident saying there is a list with preferences in order, that list is evaluated by the committee, and the edited/updated options are presented to the manager. Even Conte would've had to 'allow' the Spence signing, doubtless with the caveat that he was in no way obliged to pick him or play him. As has been said many times, the club had a method and agenda moving forward which centered around a specific type of recruitment. So by proxy, the manager is working with a committee plan.

Again, it is my view that you (and others) won't have to worry about these sorts of things for the coming season anyway as I believe he will not be retained...

 

[Bishop]

All our managers have had 'final say'. That does not mean they have always got close to their first choices. I feel confident saying there is a list with preferences in order, that list is evaluated by the committee, and the edited/updated options are presented to the manager. Even Conte would've had to 'allow' the Spence signing, doubtless with the caveat that he was in no way obliged to pick him or play him. As has been said many times, the club had a method and agenda moving forward which centered around a specific type of recruitment. So by proxy, the manager is working with a committee plan.

Of course they don't get all their first choices and that's not the debate. It's a question of final veto. All of our previous managers have not had the final say. Conte told us with his own mouth that Spence was "a club signing" and then proceeded to ignore him totally to prove a point. Poch didn't want Sissoko but ended up with him anyway. Harry wanted Tevez but got 1 legged Saha and retirement Nelson.

Forget the first chances for the moment as that's not the point, the point is this the first manager we've had who actually has had the final say. It's a great move imo as no longer do we have to caveat the transfer ins and outs of player the manager may or may not have wanted. Now we know regardless of if they were option 1 or 15 the manager was happy to have them and decided on that signing.

 

[billyiddo]

All our managers have had 'final say'. That does not mean they have always got close to their first choices. I feel confident saying there is a list with preferences in order, that list is evaluated by the committee, and the edited/updated options are presented to the manager. Even Conte would've had to 'allow' the Spence signing, doubtless with the caveat that he was in no way obliged to pick him or play him. As has been said many times, the club had a method and agenda moving forward which centered around a specific type of recruitment. So by proxy, the manager is working with a committee plan.

Again, it is my view that you (and others) won't have to worry about these sorts of things for the coming season anyway as I believe he will not be retained...

Very few clubs who won't have to concern themselves with budgetary constraints when planning out their transfer activity

 

[thfcsteff]

Of course they don't get all their first choices and that's not the debate. It's a question of final veto. All of our previous managers have not had the final say. Conte told us with his own mouth that Spence was "a club signing" and then proceeded to ignore him totally to prove a point. Poch didn't want Sissoko but ended up with him anyway. Harry wanted Tevez but got 1 legged Saha and retirement Nelson.

Forget the first chances for the moment as that's not the point, the point is this the first manager we've had who actually has had the final say. It's a great move imo as no longer do we have to caveat the transfer ins and outs of player the manager may or may not have wanted. Now we know regardless of if they were option 1 or 15 the manager was happy to have them and decided on that signing.

I disagree. Different language for the same outcome.

I'll give you the Poch era...he was offered Sissoko at the end of the window. If he'd have flat-out refused him, we'd have been down a player inthe squad. Sissoko would've been on a list from the outshot. Essentially, that list would've had 'approval' from the manager. It simply becomes a case of whether the manager is getting option 1 or 4. In fact, Poch was the only manager in recent times brave enough to call this out by refusing to agree to any incomings because they didn't bring the quality he felt was vital at the time (in essence saying that having taken the Njie/Nkoudo/Janssen/Sissoko route, he'd rather wait and get higher quality; that was always my read anyway, plus his anger at us not moving players out at the right time. Postecoglu has spoken about how the main responsibility for selection and acquisition is with Lange, however I have no doubt that he has a big say on who enters the building, whether a personal choice or a 'data driven' choice.

(Just to add, the whole idea of our current structure is to sign players within the club philosophy and not specifically for a manager. Postecoglu was brought in (as I remember it) because he fitted a remit that the club had about re-igniting our 'dare is to do' attitude and history, as well as help unite the club across the board.)

 

[tommysvr]

Besides the point, the Europa was a harder competition when they were in charge with teams dropping out from the Champions league.

This is like the whole Gareth Southgate thing, yeah he got us to finals etc but the teams he played on his way were teams you expected to beat. It’s all hindsight but the run we went on in the competition was hardly a difficult route.

How is it beside the point? You're trying to squash the achievement of Ange and this team winning only our fourth ever European trophy by claiming that managers who didn't win one could have easily.

People who say winning the competition doesn't count because the teams were all brick have quickly becoming the most annoying of all.

 

[Lilbaz]

Of course they don't get all their first choices and that's not the debate. It's a question of final veto. All of our previous managers have not had the final say. Conte told us with his own mouth that Spence was "a club signing" and then proceeded to ignore him totally to prove a point. Poch didn't want Sissoko but ended up with him anyway. Harry wanted Tevez but got 1 legged Saha and retirement Nelson.

Forget the first chances for the moment as that's not the point, the point is this the first manager we've had who actually has had the final say. It's a great move imo as no longer do we have to caveat the transfer ins and outs of player the manager may or may not have wanted. Now we know regardless of if they were option 1 or 15 the manager was happy to have them and decided on that signing.

Conte said spence was a club signing but that he had said "ok". Ok was literally his words in the press conference.

 

[metalgear]

With the same consistent line-up? With the same core players regularly playing?

What can I say? I'd take the gamble for all the reasons I've offered tenfold over several threads, I believe a combination of factors mean we will never ever have even close to as bad a league season again, you don't and are absolutely insistant that we are on a negative trajectory thus he should be canned.
We're locked in.

I've also stated that I think they'll move him on anyway and are just waiting for 'vibes fc' to die down. We'll all see soon enough.

I do not think that even if Paratici can silver tongue his way to getting Inzaghi that he would be a panacea in any way whatsoever.

we started 24/25 season with a fully fit team and could not replicate the same form as the season before. proper pre season too, in which we looked awful.

two seasons of extensive injuries across the team and the stats clearly showing that players are extensively used (distance covered and no. of sprints) ... even webb and his medical team overhaul didn't help

if we didn't win the europa cup would you have ange next season? what has ange do to deserve it more than mourinho/conte/nuno ?

 

[thfcsteff]

we started 24/25 season with a fully fit team and could not replicate the same form as the season before. proper pre season too, in which we looked awful.

two seasons of extensive injuries across the team and the stats clearly showing that players are extensively used (distance covered and no. of sprints) ... even webb and his medical team overhaul didn't help

if we didn't win the europa cup would you have ange next season? what has ange do to deserve it more than mourinho/conte/nuno ?

Mate,

I've given my POV on the earlier part of your post.

With regards to the boldface...

...there's a side of me that has always felt he could make it work next season with all the accumulated experiences. I think the question is moot because had we lost he would've been sacked the day after. So far as what has he done to deserve it more than Mourinho/Conte/Nuno? He won a European trophy for the first time in 41years (including Nuno is a bit naughty IMO as we all agree he was shafted from the get-go). The other two managed to not progress in European competition. At his first time of asking in European competition with us, Ange won it. That alone means he deserves it, let alone the buy-in and collective shared experience.

As I've said countless times in this thread, if I were you I wouldn't worry too much anyway, as it is my belief he will get the tin tack soon.

 

[thfcsteff]

Very few clubs who won't have to concern themselves with budgetary constraints when planning out their transfer activity

Right. I agree. Are you stating a vierwpoint or looking to challenge something I said? In this thread it is becoming increasingly hard to tell (generally, that is)...

 

[HarryBreadbap]

He isn’t buying the players
The clubs DOF is
That’s the model

Ange has said in four separate press conferences that he and he alone decides which players come to the club. Lange may source options but Ange is responsible for the final say.

 

[metalgear]

Ange has said in four separate press conferences that he and he alone decides which players come to the club. Lange may source options but Ange is responsible for the final say.

I think we're back to a committee consensus thing. Even if final say means last person to contribute a go/no go decision