Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

It's pretty clear he did brief to Richard Keys that the players were unhappy with AVB. Duncan Castle's has also been confirming it recently. Do you think Sherwood was a positive or negative influence on AVB's time here? You'd have to stretch a fair bit to argue it was the former.

If he didn't want to play a player that frankly was pretty rubbish in his system the year before, who had already once took far longer away from the club that he was supposed to at the ACN, who he considered an incorrect personality type for the squad he wanted to build, then that's his perogative. There are benefits to not having Ade here, just like if it's a Sherwood/Harry system Ade can be very useful. But the moment AVB has to start listening to the suits telling him to play a certain player we've descended into joke club status where we aren't backing the manager - it's at that point I can understand him being seriously f*cked off.

No I dont think Sherwood (by the soundbites) was supportive of AVB....But I think its a weak argument in defending AVB.....After all if everything was rosy in the garden there would have been no case to answer.....I am pretty sure Levy didnt need Sherwood whispering sweet nothings into his ear. Im confident that Levy is his own man and that he was more informed (than Sherwood) as to what was going on with the first team squad.....for all we know it may have been Levy approaching Sherwood and voicing concerns to him.

Ade is bloody frustrating I will grant you that but the fact remains AVB and his coaches could not bring the best out of Ade last season to our cost!!!!! they met in Jamaica (please correct me) or somewhere post season to talk strategy.....players....Bale Ade.... If Ade wasnt sold then for our benefit he needed to be managed carefully so we could get some value out of him and the massive wages he earns.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

conjecture like the supposed evidence of Sherwood influencing Levy to dispense with AVB.

Agree with you there. Ive not seen enough evidence to accuse Sherwood of undermining AVB bar a tweet.

AVB press confidence was not convincing for me...yep fair play he accepted responsibility for the poor result/peformance.

AVB sounded like a defeated broken man with no fight left........oh and in terms of Ade why cut off your nose to spite your face?????? sherwood proved in one game that Ade was an asset worth persevering with......at least till the duration of his contract........dont get me wrong I am not an ade fan....but by not utilising Ade AVB was weakening our push for a decent PL finish.....unforgivable in my opinion.

He's the manager and he were down because we had just got tonked 5-0 on our own patch . Did you expect him to do stand up comedy ? Funny how we see things differently.

Although I thought after the Liverpool game that AVB may well be out of a job it were only because of who the guvnor is at our club.

As for Ade ..We're not privy to the working relationship of the manager and player. There were clearly a relationship breakdown and the manager weren't getting the best out of the player and so wanted him away from the squad. Managers do this all the time.

This player is not a youngster and has a history of being a difficult ****er and were up until recently getting paid more than Luis Suarez. hopefully Timbo will get something out of him so we can move him out in the summer.
Shocking attitude and how we fell for buying I'll never know .

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Dealing with these in line.

It's not clear at all. Keys withdrew the tweet. That could be because of pressure from Sherwood or it could be because he got it wrong. You pays your money and takes your choice but no one can be certain.

I haven't seen Castles confirm anything, I'd be interested in seeing a link to that.

Impossible to tell unless you have behind the scenes info.

Read Castle's timeline: https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles it's about 5 days ago where he touches on it.

I think it's pretty clear Keys got caught out (how on earth do you 'get it wrong' otherwise? Do you see the story on the backpage and assume Sherwood, the technical coordinator at the club, is willfully being quoted on the record telling a national newspaper that the players are in revolt and unhappy with the head coach?) and Castles pretty much confirms it, he's been right on everything else RE AVB. Keys withdrew the tweet because it made him look like a plonker. There is absolutely no way I can fathom that he can get that wrong in any way that doesn't show Sherwood in a bad light there. Why is he mentioning Sherwood at all? Why not just reference The Sun story?

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Why should AVB have to start picking the team and tactics to please the suits? He is the Head Coach, he is employed to make those decisions. If he isn't given that backing it's completely fair that he doesn't want to stay at the club. No-one is saying 'Oh boo hoo poor AVB', simply that he doesn't need to put up with the kind of stuff the club was throwing his way, and he could go somewhere else where he is wanted and appreciated. It's his prerogative. We are not and won't be the pinnacle of AVB's career.

Hasn't Wenger mostly been proved right? Everytime he has said 'don't panic', they have mostly roared back with a ridiculous run at the end of the season and everything has been ok in the end.

that was Porto. Im pretty sure it wont get better for him, success wise.

AVB thinks he is brilliant, an expression used to describe Hoddle also applies to AVB imo..."if he was an ice cream he would lick himself". If he wants to be successful in the future i think he needs to learn a bit of humility and realise he is a baby in management terms and not take himself so damn seriously

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

And equally, I didn't. I tried hard to understand what you saw in games, I really did. But I am afraid I just couldn't see it.

Which ones of our seven new signings do you think showed significant promise in the first part of the season .. And which do you think AVB was carefully nurturing to explode into top gear in the second half to deliver your faith that we would succeed?

I genuinely thought all of them were good signings that would show their worth in time. I didn't think any of them were duds. They all clearly had talent. They all had good years ahead of them. The problem was they were all coming into a squad at the same time, so they were all new at once, all trying to get to grips with the country at once.

Why did Pardew deserve more time from Saudi Sportswashing Machine than AVB got from us?

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Hasn't Wenger mostly been proved right? Everytime he has said 'don't panic', they have mostly roared back with a ridiculous run at the end of the season and everything has been ok in the end.

NO! he has convinced a large group of supporters that 4th place is a trophy and it is acceptable to sell players to your big rivals!!!!

Wenger does well in getting UCL and thats it......If I was a fan I would be questioning his Salary and lack of silverware over 8-9 years whatever it is!!!! anyway lets not talk about the other lot.....

Bottom line we believed in a dream with AVB (me included) and it turned into a nightmare.......AVB will be remembered in England as a young pretender who overcomplicated the beutiful game....and he only has himself to blame on that score.....

 

[milo]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Which ones of our seven new signings do you think showed significant promise in the first part of the season .. And which do you think AVB was carefully nurturing to explode into top gear in the second half to deliver your faith that we would succeed?

Chiriches was obviously the stand out when it came to hitting the ground running.

I think that Paulinho and Capoue had done enough to suggest that they would improve as the season went on.

I think that Chadli is a decent squad signing who might step up, a Malbranque level player.

Soldado's form is entirely dependent on support and service, obviously that was lacking in the first half of the season. Whether it improved in the second half would have depended on Lennon, Townsend, Chadli, Lamela and Eriksen.

My guess is that we are not going to see the best of Lamela and Eriksen until next season and that was AVB's undoing.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

are Arsanal still on that "negative spiral" :-k

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

No I dont think Sherwood (by the soundbites) was supportive of AVB....But I think its a weak argument in defending AVB.....After all if everything was rosy in the garden there would have been no case to answer.....I am pretty sure Levy didnt need Sherwood whispering sweet nothings into his ear. Im confident that Levy is his own man and that he was more informed (than Sherwood) as to what was going on with the first team squad.....for all we know it may have been Levy approaching Sherwood and voicing concerns to him.

Ade is bloody frustrating I will grant you that but the fact remains AVB and his coaches could not bring the best out of Ade last season to our cost!!!!! they met in Jamaica (please correct me) or somewhere post season to talk strategy.....players....Bale Ade.... If Ade wasnt sold then for our benefit he needed to be managed carefully so we could get some value out of him and the massive wages he earns.

We've got Soldado and Defoe, we made it clear we wanted to get rid of Ade, we wanted to play with one striker. Why does Ade deserve to get more chances? He got plenty last year. Why should someone like Eriksen, or Townsend, or Sigurdsson have to be dropped from the team in order to play someone we've made clear we don't want here any more?

If you have someone in an influential position in the club, then it is going to give much more credibility to negative arguments towards the head coach when bad form hits. Do you think anyone at Man United is talking Moyes down at all? There's not a hint whatsoever of him being sacked and they are hovering around our level. Of course, if everything is fine, Sherwood looks like a plonker speaking up. But as soon as bad form hits, he can make himself look like the saviour. If we are trying to build something long term that requires patience and trust, it isn't a good situation to have. I'm not even saying it's the key thing that brought down AVB, because the player revolt stories came out in Sept 2012 and he survived over a year after that. But it was pretty clear Sherwood was a negative influence.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

that was Porto. Im pretty sure it wont get better for him, success wise.

AVB thinks he is brilliant, an expression used to describe Hoddle also applies to AVB imo..."if he was an ice cream he would lick himself". If he wants to be successful in the future i think he needs to learn a bit of humility and realise he is a baby in management terms and not take himself so damn seriously

I don't think it will be Porto, but even if it is, if he goes back there it's hardly a step down from Spurs, and hardly requires him to want to take the circumstances we provided for him just because he needs to fight to stay at our great club. He doesn't, he will be fine without us. He didn't want to be here.

What did he do that took himself so damn seriously?

 

[milo]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Read Castle's timeline: https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles it's about 5 days ago where he touches on it.

I think it's pretty clear Keys got caught out (how on earth do you 'get it wrong' otherwise? Do you see the story on the backpage and assume Sherwood, the technical coordinator at the club, is willfully being quoted on the record telling a national newspaper that the players are in revolt and unhappy with the head coach?) and Castles pretty much confirms it, he's been right on everything else RE AVB. Keys withdrew the tweet because it made him look like a plonker. There is absolutely no way I can fathom that he can get that wrong in any way that doesn't show Sherwood in a bad light there. Why is he mentioning Sherwood at all? Why not just reference The Sun story?

Would you mind quoting the Castle's tweets? Jordinho explained how to do this in the ask Scara thread.

There was a good alternative explanation for hoiw Keys could have made that Tweet early in the Sherwood thread. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

He's the manager and he were down because we had just got tonked 5-0 on our own patch . Did you expect him to do stand up comedy ? Funny how we see things differently.

I would have expected him to come out with something other than the usual gravelly bollox!

something like......

'I know my position is going to be questioned but I want the supporters to know I am 100% commited to turning our fortunes around' 'I am the right man to take this club forward and we are not far away from everyone gelling and playing in a way that we want to' 'I will fight tooth and nail to ensure we finish as high as we can in the table' 'I appologise for the result and will work hard to put things right'

That was missing.....no passion no fight.......it was clear as day to me.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I genuinely thought all of them were good signings that would show their worth in time. I didn't think any of them were duds. They all clearly had talent. They all had good years ahead of them. The problem was they were all coming into a squad at the same time, so they were all new at once, all trying to get to grips with the country at once.

Why did Pardew deserve more time from Saudi Sportswashing Machine than AVB got from us?

I don't care about Pardew. Who knows how things are going to pan out up there. I don't and neither do you.

You keep talking about a system that AVB has that would have delivered success but you failed to answer my questions regarding what WAS the system and, if everyone was fit, who would be AVB's first team and formation.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

would you mind quoting the castle's tweets? Jordinho explained how to do this in the ask scara thread.

There was a good alternative explanation for hoiw keys could have made that tweet early in the sherwood thread. I'll see if i can find it.

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[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I don't care about Pardew. Who knows how things are going to pan out up there. I don't and neither do you.

You keep talking about a system that AVB has that would have delivered success but you failed to answer my questions regarding what WAS the system and, if everyone was fit, who would be AVB's first team and formation.

I'm sure I wrote an absolutely massive post that detailed what the system was supposed to be a few weeks ago. As for who the first team would be - we had a huge squad I don't think it's easy to do that. Lloris, Verts, Walker, Rose, Paulinho, Sandro, Soldado would be the first choice picks IMO.

Does the Pardew case not show that they've given a manager who previously looked like playing turgid football and generating poor results the time, and are now reaping the rewards? They are in and around us in the table after taking the hit last season bringing a load of foreigners in at once and now have a good team and very decent squad.

This reminds me - no-one answered me on my post a couple pages back in answer to the 'we've been turgid all season' accusations. Other than Hull at home and the hammerings, it really wasn't as bad as the turgid myth makes out.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I don't think it will be Porto, but even if it is, if he goes back there it's hardly a step down from Spurs, and hardly requires him to want to take the circumstances we provided for him just because he needs to fight to stay at our great club. He doesn't, he will be fine without us. He didn't want to be here.

What did he do that took himself so damn seriously?

2 recent examples were the Lloris head injury and the questioning of his handling of the situation, and his spat with Neil Ashton and Martin Samuel just because they made comments about his achievements.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

2 recent examples were the Lloris head injury and the questioning of his handling of the situation, and his spat with Neil Ashton and Martin Samuel just because they made comments about his achievements.

The Lloris one I can't really argue with, it seemed to be very defensive when he didn't know all of the facts of the situation. I don't know what his intention was there but it didn't play out well for him.

Ashton and Samuel though, misquoted him and used that as the basis for 2 attack articles. He was completely justified in setting them straight.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I'm sure I wrote an absolutely massive post that detailed what the system was supposed to be a few weeks ago. As for who the first team would be - we had a huge squad I don't think it's easy to do that. Lloris, Verts, Walker, Rose, Paulinho, Sandro, Soldado would be the first choice picks IMO.

Does the Pardew case not show that they've given a manager who previously looked like playing turgid football and generating poor results the time, and are now reaping the rewards? They are in and around us in the table after taking the hit last season bringing a load of foreigners in at once and now have a good team and very decent squad.

This reminds me - no-one answered me on my post a couple pages back in answer to the 'we've been turgid all season' accusations. Other than Hull at home and the hammerings, it really wasn't as bad as the turgid myth makes out.

as I said, you seem as if you were happy with how we played, but that doesnt mean the rest of us were. Plus its not just Spurs fans who wanted to see more goals, more chances, more excitement, plenty of non Spurs fans working in journalism and the media pointed out that Spurs were no longer exciting to watch

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

The Lloris one I can't really argue with, it seemed to be very defensive when he didn't know all of the facts of the situation. I don't know what his intention was there but it didn't play out well for him.

Ashton and Samuel though, misquoted him and used that as the basis for 2 attack articles. He was completely justified in setting them straight.

there was no need to do it so publicly. How about having a chat with them one on one, trying to build a harmonious relationship. It just showed his inexperience and tetchy nature

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

No doubt AVB is totally immune from any blame on that front??

We should all fail or suceed together!!!!

At least Pardew came out fighting during the bad times....admittetley he was using the europa league as a poor excuse in my opinion.

I think AVB was nearly as sucessful as Wenger at pulling the wool over supporters eyes....to the point where there are people on here that will pop up with new excuses for everyday as to why he was the mutts nuts......I thought AVB was all that but oh no boo hoo nasty people didnt back him over Ade.....Sherwood was telling tales.....

Bottom Line AVB could have shown MORE bravery and MORE courage in his team selections and with convincing Levy we were on the right track!! If he didnt want to convince Levy he was the right man for the job and things would come good then he was not 100% commited in my opinion.....And Levy was right to do what he did....on that score.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AVB is flawless in all this.. All managers make mistakes . TS will make them too no doubt and they'll be plenty of voices screaming for his head when his errors prove costly.

But I do think our chairman has been to trigger happy for what the club is , veering from one philosophy to another. I'm hoping should we get tonked a couple of times by the end of January he holds his nerve and sees the season out with TS and gives the man a chance.

Anyway , there's some posters wanting this thread locked as AVB at the club is now history . Its just really about getting it off the chest for those who would rather had seen the manager given at least until the end of the season and those who are now glee full to see the back of him .. So I'm done with it all ..

Timbos blue and white army .. COYS!\o/