Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think he's talking about the quality of the league as a whole, not Spurs.

Ah well that's another debate then. I would say the top 4 were stronger in Jol's days tbh. Chelsea have declined a bit in the last couple of seasons, league wise. Still should have been comfortably top 4 though. I think people underestimate how much of a threat Emirates Marketing Project were in 09/10 despite Adebayor being their biggest goal threat. Really didn't surprise me one bit that we finished behind them the next season with the additions of Tevez, Silva and Toure.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ah well that's another debate then. I would say the top 4 were stronger in Jol's days tbh. Chelsea have declined a bit in the last couple of seasons, league wise. Still should have been comfortably top 4 though. I think people underestimate how much of a threat Emirates Marketing Project were in 09/10 despite Adebayor being their biggest goal threat. Really didn't surprise me one bit that we finished behind them the next season with the additions of Tevez, Silva and Toure.

agreed

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

09/10 loses marks for me because it was before City were good. Other than us, there were only 3 good teams in the league.

And again with 11/12 - This year's Palace would finish above 11/12 Chelsea (OK, that's an exaggeration but you get my point) so there were only 3 decent teams to finish above - we finished below them all.

City weren't as good as they are now granted but they were still a threat. Liverpool still had Torres and Gerrard who finished 2nd the year before. Finishing top 4 that season eclipses everything else as far as I'm concerned. 11/12 ended horribly but how many people would have predicted Spurs would finish above Chelsea that season? They still had a better squad than us, but AVB fecked up and Di Matteo did even worse in terms of their league form.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ah well that's another debate then. I would say the top 4 were stronger in Jol's days tbh. Chelsea have declined a bit in the last couple of seasons, league wise. Still should have been comfortably top 4 though. I think people underestimate how much of a threat Emirates Marketing Project were in 09/10 despite Adebayor being their biggest goal threat. Really didn't surprise me one bit that we finished behind them the next season with the additions of Tevez, Silva and Toure.

I agree but Tevez was with them the 09/10 season.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

City weren't as good as they are now granted but they were still a threat. Liverpool still had Torres and Gerrard who finished 2nd the year before. Finishing top 4 that season eclipses everything else as far as I'm concerned. 11/12 ended horribly but how many people would have predicted Spurs would finish above Chelsea that season? They still had a better squad than us, but AVB fecked up and Di Matteo did even worse in terms of their league form.

City had Mark Hughes for half a season though - a Mark Hughes team is as much threat to the top 4 as I am to Mike Tyson (insert more relevant boxer here).

Liverpool had just sold Alonso, the one player that made them tick - I'd say that was more damaging than us selling Modric or Berbatov.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

City had Mark Hughes for half a season though - a Mark Hughes team is as much threat to the top 4 as I am to Mike Tyson (insert more relevant boxer here).

Liverpool had just sold Alonso, the one player that made them tick - I'd say that was more damaging than us selling Modric or Berbatov.

They still had a side that wasn't far off us in terms of quality; Kompany, Tevez, Bellamy, De Jong, Zabaleta are/were all quality players and had spent a fortune that season.

Just out of interest, how many points and places did we make up from Liverpool that season compared to the previous one? We finished 8th I believe and must have scored around 20 points more than in 08/09. Alonso was a big loss but we finished above them with about 4 games to spare.

Also I don't know how you can make the assessment that 11/12 was worse than 10/11 as we finished higher in the league and with more points. And apparently City were "storming", they were bang average by their standards.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

09/10 loses marks for me because it was before City were good. Other than us, there were only 3 good teams in the league.

And again with 11/12 - This year's Palace would finish above 11/12 Chelsea (OK, that's an exaggeration but you get my point) so there were only 3 decent teams to finish above - we finished below them all.

You didn't rate Chelsea in 2011/12? A team with Drobga, Lampard, Terry, Cech, Ivanovic, Sturridge, Mata, Ramires and Ashley Cole? I'm curious as to why you think that team wasn't good enough for the top 4.

I would argue we had a better squad than Arsenal last season, not very much in it, but for the first time in 20 years, WE had the best player in North London in Bale. But it was AVB's first season so finishing one place and one point behind them wasn't a bad first season, I just don't think it's better than what old Arry achieved.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Re: 11/12 v 10/11

In 10/11 we were the 5th best team
In the league - in 11/12 we were the 3rd (id say possibly even 2nd) so although in one we finished 4th it was actually a worse performance than the season we finished 5th.

All IMO of course

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Re: 11/12 v 10/11

In 10/11 we were the 5th best team
In the league - in 11/12 we were the 3rd (id say possibly even 2nd) so although in one we finished 4th it was actually a worse performance than the season we finished 5th.

All IMO of course

I would have said 4th best. I'm not absolving Arry for finishing below Arsenal because I was convinced we would even after they beat us 5-2, but I still don't see how we were better than Chelsea, I listed all the players they had. We had a better midfield, but they had Drogba, a world classs striker and the biggest of big game players, we had Defoe and Adebayor. To say we had the 2nd best team is a real stretch in my eyes but that's what you believe so can't argue.

The cynical/anarchistic side of me is starting to think people are talking Chelsea down because it takes some of the weight off AVB for failing with them that season :lol:

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

You didn't rate Chelsea in 2011/12? A team with Drobga, Lampard, Terry, Cech, Ivanovic, Sturridge, Mata, Ramires and Ashley Cole? I'm curious as to why you think that team wasn't good enough for the top 4.

The team wasn't good enough because it lost a load of matches and finished short of the mark. Without wanting to rehash old crap, had Chelsea played half as well as they could have that season we'd have finished 5th.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Re: 11/12 v 10/11

In 10/11 we were the 5th best team
In the league - in 11/12 we were the 3rd (id say possibly even 2nd) so although in one we finished 4th it was actually a worse performance than the season we finished 5th.

All IMO of course

Precisely.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The team wasn't good enough because it lost a load of matches and finished short of the mark. Without wanting to rehash old crap, had Chelsea played half as well as they could have that season we'd have finished 5th.

Ah I see, you're not necessarily saying we had the better squad, but they didn't play well enough?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ah I see, you're not necessarily saying we had the better squad, but they didn't play well enough?

Exactly that. We had a far inferior squad but Chelsea were terrible that year.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Finishing outside the relegation zone with a midfield of Zokora/Jenas is worthy of a knighthood in my eyes!

:ross:

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the most ironic thing to come from all this discussion about points and places is that there has somehow become this absolute that where you finish is more important than your points earned (obviously 99% of the time the two are hand in hand).

Nobody has actually pointed out that last season's best-ever points total and 5th amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME as 'that' season's 4th and less points, yet one guy was 'unlucky' while AVB 'failed' to improve us. Each assumption carried no context of the relative situations surrounding the final places.

What makes last season's final result any LESS than the previous seasons? Neither was enough to get in the CL for their respective seasons?

I know it's considered rude to do so by some, but (whisper it) AVB improved us with regards to points gained last season.

This season? LOL, we shall see…I hope he gets the chance to finish the season so as we can judge.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the most ironic thing to come from all this discussion about points and places is that there has somehow become this absolute that where you finish is more important than your points earned (obviously 99% of the time the two are hand in hand).

Nobody has actually pointed out that last season's best-ever points total and 5th amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME as 'that' season's 4th and less points, yet one guy was 'unlucky' while AVB 'failed' to improve us. Each assumption carried no context of the relative situations surrounding the final places.

What makes last season's final result any LESS than the previous seasons? Neither was enough to get in the CL for their respective seasons?

I know it's considered rude to do so by some, but (whisper it) AVB improved us with regards to points gained last season.

This season? LOL, we shall see…I hope he gets the chance to finish the season so as we can judge.

First of all Arry was unlucky but he also underperformed so it's not a case of either/or.

Secondly, I've hardly seen anyone say he was unlucky. Jol was unlucky and people rightly point that out, but with Arry people say its a case he fecked up whilst barely acknowledging how lucky Chelsea were. Let's not forget we actually finished in the top 4 so we met our target from the beginning of the season.

Points and league places go hand in hand, but league position is more important to me.

 

[superfaisty]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

However AVBs time ends at spurs, one things for sure. As a manager he's learnt a shed load by managing spurs both on and off the field.

being a manager at the top level is hard and I don't think enough people appreciate that fact. Just look at the numbers that get the sack each year. There are very few great managers- SAF and Wenger probably the only 2 in the premier league era with the staying power and why were they so good. Partly down to having a great squad and the ability to rebuild that squad over time funded by CL money. Partly because both played a certain way consistently that suited the players at their disposal. Definitely partly because their board had the balls to stick with them through thick and thin (though mostly thick). Definitely partly because both had / have strong personalities and a vision about how the game should be played.

Then we have AVB who had success with Porto but had never stuck around for more than 1 season at any club. Horror show at chelation redemption at spurs thanks largely to bales goals.

This year no bale and new players to integrate into a system that works but hasnt at crucial times this season. Pressure building from all sides, perhaps could be accused of naively in how he's dealt with that pressure. A test for any manager but especially so for one so young and inexperienced.

Kudos for levy for giving him the opportunity but even Daniel has to accept he's not the finished article and we'll be inconsistent at times. Long term the changes we are making are in the right direction but is Andre in it for the long haul or are we another stepping stone?

All I want us to see my beloved spurs do well. Hopefully Andre can do it for us.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

However AVBs time ends at spurs, one things for sure. As a manager he's learnt a shed load by managing spurs both on and off the field.

being a manager at the top level is hard and I don't think enough people appreciate that fact. Just look at the numbers that get the sack each year. There are very few great managers- SAF and Wenger probably the only 2 in the premier league era with the staying power and why were they so good. Partly down to having a great squad and the ability to rebuild that squad over time funded by CL money. Partly because both played a certain way consistently that suited the players at their disposal. Definitely partly because their board had the balls to stick with them through thick and thin (though mostly thick). Definitely partly because both had / have strong personalities and a vision about how the game should be played.

Then we have AVB who had success with Porto but had never stuck around for more than 1 season at any club. Horror show at chelation redemption at spurs thanks largely to bales goals.

This year no bale and new players to integrate into a system that works but hasnt at crucial times this season. Pressure building from all sides, perhaps could be accused of naively in how he's dealt with that pressure. A test for any manager but especially so for one so young and inexperienced.

Kudos for levy for giving him the opportunity but even Daniel has to accept he's not the finished article and we'll be inconsistent at times. Long term the changes we are making are in the right direction but is Andre in it for the long haul or are we another stepping stone?

All I want us to see my beloved spurs do well. Hopefully Andre can do it for us.

Excellent post IMV, really balanced and honest. Nice reading mate.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

First of all Arry was unlucky but he also underperformed so it's not a case of either/or.

Secondly, I've hardly seen anyone say he was unlucky. Jol was unlucky and people rightly point that out, but with Arry people say its a case he fecked up whilst barely acknowledging how lucky Chelsea were. Let's not forget we actually finished in the top 4 so we met our target from the beginning of the season.

Points and league places go hand in hand, but league position is more important to me.

I feel you would struggle to find anyone who observed what happened that season to 'barely acknowledge' Chel$ki's luck. Unless they area Chel$ki supporter.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the most ironic thing to come from all this discussion about points and places is that there has somehow become this absolute that where you finish is more important than your points earned (obviously 99% of the time the two are hand in hand).

Nobody has actually pointed out that last season's best-ever points total and 5th amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME as 'that' season's 4th and less points, yet one guy was 'unlucky' while AVB 'failed' to improve us. Each assumption carried no context of the relative situations surrounding the final places.

What makes last season's final result any LESS than the previous seasons? Neither was enough to get in the CL for their respective seasons?

I know it's considered rude to do so by some, but (whisper it) AVB improved us with regards to points gained last season.

This season? LOL, we shall see…I hope he gets the chance to finish the season so as we can judge.

Don't spose you could PM me? Really interested in what you're hearing, as you seem to have grown surer and surer that there's a good chance AVB won't finish the season.