Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[billyiddo]

Im not sure how much credit can go to AVB for the actual signings themselves (none really leap out to me as being players he would have gone for himself) they do however seem his type of player that much i agree with

 

[Jordinho]

Im not sure how much credit can go to AVB for the actual signings themselves (none really leap out to me as being players he would have gone for himself) they do however seem his type of player that much i agree with

I think it's far to simplistic and silly to assume that any player is one man's signing, no matter who that man might be. Nor do I want my club to be run that way. Just look at at the likes of Pulis, O'Neill, Bruce, Hughes and so on. Between the good players there's just so much money wasted.

 

[thfcsteff]

With Holtby confirmed it's one more first team signing under AVB. That makes it 6 by my count, Vertonghen, Dembele, Dempsey, Sig, Lloris and now Holtby.

In the Holtby thread he is among other things being described as a very good ball winner, sounds like a hard working player. I think we are again seeing signs of what AVB wants to do with the club, all his signings have been hard working players who can do a bit of everything, but who are also good on the ball regardless of where they play.

We've already seen the benefits of a defender in Vertonghen and goalie in Lloris who both are very good on the ball, as I've said previously I think this benefit will show even better when we get Ekotto back. I still think a couple of our players aren't good enough on the ball at this point though and it's holding us back. I think we will keep improving under AVB and I think the signings made will continue to reflect this, no more Bassong, Hutton or Gomes type signings is my speculation.

I also think we've seen some of the benefits of having a team of hard working players (yes, that included Ade). Our pressing has been very good at times and we're looking more and more like a team that defends like a unit, not just individuals. This has meant letting Kranjcar go and I think it influenced the decision to let VdV go, but that's little more than speculation. Similarly I would speculate that it was the reason we weren't in for Berbatov - similar to the reasons why Ferguson didn't use him much after his first season and why he was eventually sold. I think our transfer strategy will continue to reflect this as well.

When you talk of getting more than the sum of it's parts out of a group of players I think having only hard working players in a side is a very good example. If you have only one or two players who aren't part of the defensive work a high pressing game will often fail, but if you have an entire team of hard working players it can all come together very nicely. Barca and Manu are two excellent examples of this imo. Having only players who are good on the ball is another example.

=D>

I think Holtby could prove to be an excellent signing...I like the thinking behind it...benefitting from Freundy's work with the German youth side...

 

[thfcsteff]

The hard working, pressing is definitely part of the equation.

I do think technically good players is also high on AVB's/clubs list, one of the things that stands out for me watching us play over last few seasons is progressively how much better technically our players are, first touch, ball control, ability in tight spaces.

Agreed. At this point only the blind and obstinate would deny the transformation which is going on, the one which could actually see us win silverware like we used to long long ago...

 

[Spursalot]

I think it's far to simplistic and silly to assume that any player is one man's signing, no matter who that man might be. Nor do I want my club to be run that way. Just look at at the likes of Pulis, O'Neill, Bruce, Hughes and so on. Between the good players there's just so much money wasted.

Pretty much this..

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Holtby's agent says AVB was a big factor in his decision to come here and that he is a fantastic coach. So, boom.

 

[thfcsteff]

Holtby's agent says AVB was a big factor in his decision to come here and that he is a fantastic coach. So, boom.

Of all the young players we had a beat on early and couldn't get done, Lukakau was the one that tinkled me off the most...

 

[onlyme]

I think it's far to simplistic and silly to assume that any player is one man's signing, no matter who that man might be. Nor do I want my club to be run that way. Just look at at the likes of Pulis, O'Neill, Bruce, Hughes and so on. Between the good players there's just so much money wasted.

We have a fantastic strike rate for players signed. Comolli overpaid for Bent and Bentley but recent comments he has made regarding the Torres/Carroll deals suggest to me that he has/had lost the plot. Other signings he suggested have worked out exceptionally well.
I am extremely happy with the current transfer policy.

 

[metalgear]

i like it that we're buying youth again. probably linked to the excellent facilities just built.
also good to see players being bought that seem fit AVB's ideas/philosophies - not just the opportunistic quick deal
it looks like this time levy has got all the pieces together, and the big picture seems to be coming to fruition.
new stadium completion and champions league just seems a short step away and the dream of surpassing our already glorious history feels like its already within grasp.

jon Wilson seems to agree:
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...owly-building-a-successful-spurs-squad-123112

Sooner or later, people are going to have to start taking Andre Villas-Boas seriously again. His difficulties at Chelsea led many to write him off as a bluffer but at Tottenham he has begun to fashion a very fine team indeed

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Agreed. At this point only the blind and obstinate would deny the transformation which is going on, the one which could actually see us win silverware like we used to long long ago...

I'm blind. Please elaborate to enlighten me oh wise one.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Agreed. At this point only the blind and obstinate would deny the transformation which is going on, the one which could actually see us win silverware like we used to long long ago...

Calm down, mate. I'm happy with what I'm seeing, of that I have no doubt. The players are defending as a unit, pressing ferociously and look threatening in possession. We're forcing teams into errors and finally getting our offside trap right, which is helped by having a terrifically pro-active goalkeeper for when we get it wrong.

But there's nothing that suggests that we've overcome the flaws that have kept us from consistently winning silverware these past two decades. The Reading game is a case in point; suddenly, midway through the second half, our players seemed to switch off, and Reading, hitherto rather poor, looked threatening and forced several corners, one of which they were centimetres from putting in. We looked uncertain, and scared, and rocking on our heels, when Dempsey picked the ball up and tacoted it past the goalie with the aid of a massive deflection to calm us down again. But that mental fragility is still there, and so is our annoying dispensation towards injuries, judging by Kaboul's latest set-back. I'm also concerned about the possible effects of fatigue on our key performers, Sandro and Verts being two examples. They played in nearly every game so far this season, and how they fare in the second half of the campaign may prove crucial to determining our near future.

So, in short, I'm happy with the progress made towards realising AVB's approach, an approach I feel will make us more resilient and incisive than we were under Redknapp. But this mighty transformation you speak of is still far from coming to fruition, mate.

 

[skyfarer]

I'm not sure if it's really mental fragility so much as the fact that we're bound to get tired at some point with our pressing, and the fact that we have youngish defenders who are committed, but prone to the occasional individual error. The likes of Vertonghen, Dawson/Caulker, and Walker (esp Walker) have all made a number of defensive lapses this season, even the technically skillful Vertonghen; and it's not helped by the way we've constantly been changing our back four due to injuries, rotation, new gks, etc, and by our earlier season scrambling in midfield.

So for me, it's not surprising that we can suddenly find ourselves on the back foot despite controlling most of the game beforehand. With greater PL experience, a more settled back five, and better pressing+retainment in midfield, I think we will look much more solid. This may take some time though.

***

More fundamentally, I believe that it's only recently that our midfield has started to settle into a passing rhythm. I am going to be a bit controversial(?) and state that I believe none of our current players are naturally outstanding passers/"possession keepers", and that means we were always going to struggle to control the game in midfield. Instead, we'd have to be a counterattacking team, which means falling under a bit of bombardment at times as we have to sucker them out.

Our five highest passers last season were Modric, VdV, BAE, Adebayor, and Parker, and out of all of them only Ade has played a little this season (and he's been out of form). The likes of Bale, Lennon, and Defoe are your "spears" - they're the thrust, the dangermen who lie in wait, but they're not going to conduct the general rhythm and flow. For the last few seasons, Bale and Lennon have averaged under 30 passes per game with a miserable success rate (since they're attacking passes), while Defoe barely even got 20 touches of the ball. Sandro meanwhile has been a pure-ish DM who occasionally passes astray, not a midfield orchestrator. Even Dembele last season barely averaged 40 passes per game for Fulham (compare that to, say, Arteta's 80, or Modric's 70), since he's not so much a metronomic passer as a powerful tackler, dribbler and runner. Sigurdsson averaged about 35 or so, Dempsey less.

So, without passers, we were always going to be pretty scrappy in midfield, struggling to retain control of possession. This was pretty evident against 'I invented the pass' Rodger's Liverpool, not to mention numerous early-season games. When you can't control midfield, your defense is naturally going to come under serious pressure, and when you have youngsters and newcomers in an inconsistent backline like we do, you're going to look fragile, champion's mentality or not. It's a technical problem as much as anything else.

But. What I didn't anticipate is how we've actually *adapted*. Earlier this season I was terrified at our lack of a Moutinho and a VdV replacement. But I have to say I made a mistake in pigeonholing our midfielders, forgetting that the likes of Defoe, Bale, Lennon etc could actually be - *gasp* - coached.

I am going to say I've never seen these three bust their ass so much out of possession, and in getting on the ball. In the past, Bale and Lennon would disappear for long periods of the game then come up with something brilliant, but now they are actually trying hard to get involved in possession; perhaps not to the playmaking extent that I miss with Niko and Modric, but they are beginning to press with a much greater consistency. We may still be rather unintelligent in the final third, but we are trying to make up for our lack of visionary passers with greater team effort, pressing, and movement, forcing the opposition into errors and stonewalling them with Dembele and Sandro when we do lose control.

This, I think, is down to AVB and the coaches. When even Defoe is putting himself about a bit, something must be going on behind the scenes. It's early days so I'm not going to call AVB a genius yet, but I think he should be commended for thinking of ways to make the best of what we've got, rather than bemoaning the lack of such crucial centerpiece in his plans like Moutinho/Modric (not to mention wing forwards, lone strikers, world-class FBs etc.).

 

[skyfarer]

***

Having said that, I think it's really important that we improve squad-wise this season. I don't think the problem is teams sitting back, since all the strong teams face this problem; rather, if we had more technically brilliant, natural one-touch passers, you'd see us play at a more rapid tempo and slice teams more through the middle. As it is, we're using a more methodical, patient approach since we just don't have quite the technical ability passing-wise throughout the whole team to play flowing stuff a la Man Utd at their best (we have a number of technically gifted individuals, but not throughout the entire XI, and being technically great at dribbling isn't the same as passing). That's especially true in the center - none of our players are particularly talented with the throughball so stats-wise, the majority of our attacks have come from the flanks this season, and we create only half the number of *clear-cut* chances as the Manchester clubs.

That's why AVB has adopted a strategy of 'press high and hard, and take advantage of their forced errors with our great one-on-one 'spears' like Bale/Lennon'. We're better at beating a man than cleverly passing our way through their box. We use patient passing as a defensive strategy, and to try to tempt them to come out of their shape. The constant long shots against parked buses encourage defenders to come forward after a while, though I think it's also because we just don't have the playmaking imagination to do much else.

We will go pretty far with coaching, tactics, and team unity (just look at Everton!), but I still believe there's a limit. Ultimately, we need that 'special' quality - the unteachable, the untrainable - to get us those points when nothing else is working. I understand our financial restraints but I really hope Levy trusts AVB on this, because qualities like Moutinho's vision on the counter aren't really embodied in stats but are so, so important on the field. If we have to make do with a smaller, sleeker squad, so be it; I just want AVB to have at least a few of his *own* players in the starting XI. Don't give him money we don't have, but at least try hard to allow him to build his vision.

 

[africanspurs]

who are you skyfarer? (he says in wonder and amazement)

oh and great post....had to skim but seems like as much bases were covered

 

[thfcsteff]

Calm down, mate. I'm happy with what I'm seeing, of that I have no doubt. The players are defending as a unit, pressing ferociously and look threatening in possession. We're forcing teams into errors and finally getting our offside trap right, which is helped by having a terrifically pro-active goalkeeper for when we get it wrong.

But there's nothing that suggests that we've overcome the flaws that have kept us from consistently winning silverware these past two decades. The Reading game is a case in point; suddenly, midway through the second half, our players seemed to switch off, and Reading, hitherto rather poor, looked threatening and forced several corners, one of which they were centimetres from putting in. We looked uncertain, and scared, and rocking on our heels, when Dempsey picked the ball up and tacoted it past the goalie with the aid of a massive deflection to calm us down again. But that mental fragility is still there, and so is our annoying dispensation towards injuries, judging by Kaboul's latest set-back. I'm also concerned about the possible effects of fatigue on our key performers, Sandro and Verts being two examples. They played in nearly every game so far this season, and how they fare in the second half of the campaign may prove crucial to determining our near future.

So, in short, I'm happy with the progress made towards realising AVB's approach, an approach I feel will make us more resilient and incisive than we were under Redknapp. But this mighty transformation you speak of is still far from coming to fruition, mate.

You've ignored the words 'which is going on' and 'could' my friend. I believe they will come to fruition.
I didn't say they had. I'm surprised, to be fair, that you missed the inflection and meaning.
BTW there are some (including my old friend above) who deny anything much is happening.

 

[africanspurs]

You've ignored the words 'which is going on' and 'could' my friend. I believe they will come to fruition.
I didn't say they had. I'm surprised, to be fair.
There are some (including my old friend above) who deny anything much is happening.

skyfarer just came through the war like Gandalf

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm blind. Please elaborate to enlighten me oh wise one.

I'm surprised you've asked me to. Remember I'm a 'hopeless lover' not a fighter. Thus beyond (and doubtless below) discussion I thought. If you really give a damn, you can go back through the thread where I've offered my opinion consistently.

 

[thfcsteff]

skyfarer just came through the war like Gandalf

He has, excellent posts which clearly illustrate what's going on...I agree mate...I wish I could avoid getting bogged in the personal sometimes...must-try-harder!

 

[skyfarer]

By the way, on that 'tempting the opposition' front, here's what AVB once said about parked buses:

DS: How do you attack a team that plays with an ultra-low block?

AVB: Let’s see. Juventus play with an ultra-low block, they don’t put any pressure on you high up the field. Nowadays most teams don’t. It can limit you because they control the space behind them with perfect offside timing.

They limit your vertical passes as well because they are all grouped within 30 or 40 metres, completely closed in two lines of four plus the two forwards.

So you start constructing “short”, begin the attacking process with your centre-backs of full-backs carrying the ball forward to the midfield area but then you want to pass the ball to the midfielders and you don’t know how to do it, because there is an ultra-limited space, everything is completely closed.

DS: So what to do?

AVB: You have to provoke them with the ball, which is something most teams can’t do. I cannot understand it. It’s an essential factor in the game.

At this time of ultra-low defensive block teams, you will have to learn how to provoke them with the ball. It’s the ball they want, so you have to defy them using the ball as a carrot.

Louis Van Gaal’s idea is one of continuous circulation, one side to the other, until the moment that, when you change direction, an space opens up inside and you go through it.

So, he provokes the opponent with horizontal circulation of the ball, until the moment that the opponent will start to pressure out of despair. What I believe in is to challenge the rival by driving the ball into him.
That’s something Pep Guardiola believes is decisive. And that’s something that Henk ten Cate also took to Avram Grant’s Chelsea. He took it with him form Frank Rijkaard’s Barcelona. We did it differently at Chelsea under Mourinho.

Our attacking construction was different, with the ball going directly to the full-backs or midfielders. With Ten Cate, play was started with John Terry or Ricardo Carvalho, to invite the opponent’s pressure. Then you had one less opponent in the next step of construction.

I think that's what going on with our patient play through the middle. If you look at our stats, we're the PL team that spends the least time in the attacking third (though Defoe will certainly be part of the reason), preferring instead to dominate the ball in the center. However, the methodical 'bat the ball around midfield' strategy appears to have a twofold purpose:

- more defensive solidity..."if they don't have the ball, they can't punish you"

- tempt them to come out by essentially boring them to death while playing 'delicious' balls near our half. Even the most defensive, 'I don't give a brick about possession' teams will be tempted to come out and press for the ball if they see a chance. Our possession is not like Barca, who are so dangerous and precise that every pass is the next intricate unraveling of the opposition - so the opposition are constantly bricking themselves - but rather more 'let's wait and see'.

What's really crucial is having such good interceptors as Sandro and Dembele and Lloris, so when we do lose the ball near our half, or when our wingers lose the ball when they take on the FB, Lloris's activeness and the speed of our interceptors prevent us from conceding, and instantly launch our counter. Holtby's quick brain will be very useful in this regard too.

As for 'drive' ... in the same interview, AVB mentioned that most teams use a pivot DM (small, horizontal-passing), but why not a surging DM?

For instance, many teams play with defensive pivots, small defensive midfielders.

And, except Andrea Pirlo and Xabi Alonso, and maybe Esteban Cambiasso and one or two more, they are players that are limited to the horizontal part of the game: they keep passing the ball from one side to another, left or right, without any kind of vertical penetration.

Can’t you use your defensive midfielder to introduce a surprise factor in the match? Let’s say, first he passes horizontally and then, suddenly, vertical penetration?

Maybe it's just me, but I think I've seen Sandro surge forward more often this season of late. It helps that his partner, Dembele, is much more defensively capable than Modric.

So anyways, I think AVB has been forced to adapt his philosophy thanks to our personnel here so we're definitely not seeing his vision yet, but you can see some pieces being introduced. It's true that last season we also tended to sit back - in fact, we'd sit back even more, right into our own half, while we're now more concentrated in the middle - but that seemed more forced by the situation. That is, we'd get pressed back by Fulham and WBA since our wingers were so lax in pressing and VdV naturally dropped deep in his hunger for the ball, but at least for the last few games, it seems we are purposely pressing all over the pitch to get the ball and then stroke it about in the center as we bide our chance. With more inventiveness through the middle and a smarter striker than Defoe, I think we'll be seeing more active penetration of their third since we could craft something, but for now, we have to work with what we have.

***

The one problem I see is that there are plenty of PL teams that are so unambitious they will never be crawling out of their box at the Lane. I suspect there are more of these than there are in Portugal or Spain. I like our team ethos, but we can't get away with not buying more craft and genius no more how brilliant AVB might be.

 

[skyfarer]

Btw, thanks for all the nice words guys

I haven't been on here because I haven't had consistent access to the internet for the last few months! Moved halfway cross the world and wasn't able to watch much of my beloved Spurs, unfortunately. I've only seen parts of our earlier games and the last 5/6 in full (this is probably why I'm fairly optimistic about AVB - I've been mainly watching our recent improvement haha). I have finally gotten internet this week though - just in time to monitor the TW with much interest.

Also I am not a 'he'