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American politics

wiziwig said:
He's not, just because liberals and leftists say he is. Where's the evidence?

He's an ardent supporter of Israel, he also employed all nationalities in his time at Brietbart News.
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Other white supremacists say that he is a white supremacists.

I agree that his position on Jews is a little more nuanced but he has certainly given a platform to anti-Semites and has frequently used anti-Semitic language. The American religious right have an odd position on Israel where they think that it is necessary for the second coming.

I take it that you would not disagree that he is Islamophobic.
 
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scaramanga said:
Nothing wrong with that.
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Depends how one uses the word. The way a lot of people are using it to describe people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins I can't say that there's anything wrong with having that label thrown at you.

Unfortunately it seems the so called politically correct regressive left will continue watering down these terms to the point where a political leader being described as a racist, white supremacist islamophobe demonstrably does not harm them in a presidential election.

How it ever became considered politically correct to throw these terms around without a proper reason is an interesting and somewhat depressing thing to try to figure out.
 
braineclipse said:
Depends how one uses the word. The way a lot of people are using it to describe people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins I can't say that there's anything wrong with having that label thrown at you.

Unfortunately it seems the so called politically correct regressive left will continue watering down these terms to the point where a political leader being described as a racist, white supremacist islamophobe demonstrably does not harm them in a presidential election.

How it ever became considered politically correct to throw these terms around without a proper reason is an interesting and somewhat depressing thing to try to figure out.
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You don't think that Trump used racist language during the campaign or that Breitbart regularly publishes racist material?
 
I think we can all agree, that for the most part, Chump will select extremist right wing, regressive, knuckle dragging Wall Street insiders for his executive. Business as usual for the Repuglians then?
 
milo said:
By that do you mean that there is no harm in being prejudiced against Islam above other religions?
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I despise all religions equally. Each of them is as departed and evil as the next. I do, however, consider it perfectly acceptable for one to hate any individual (or group of) religion(s) as much or as little as one chooses.

Religion is a choice, and therefore different to those other attributes we protect from insult and ridicule - age, gender, sexual identity/preference, race, etc. Religion does not deserve to be protected and is fair game as far as I'm concerned.
 
milo said:
You don't think that Trump used racist language during the campaign or that Breitbart regularly publishes racist material?
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I'm not sure you got my point if that's the question you feel like asking. I'm not attacking or disputing your statements in this thread.

I'm saying that those things were thrown around about Trump during the election and he still got elected. The go-to-explanation for a lot of democrats and liberals seems to be to say that the people who voted for him are also racist, misogynist, islamophobic white supremacists. Continuing to throw those descriptions around at a lot of people who do not deserve them. This continues to water down these terms, and in my opinion the watering down of these terms goes some way towards explaining why someone who had all of those labels thrown at him still managed to get himself elected president.
 
milo said:
Other white supremacists say that he is a white supremacists.

I agree that his position on Jews is a little more nuanced but he has certainly given a platform to anti-Semites and has frequently used anti-Semitic language. The American religious right have an odd position on Israel where they think that it is necessary for the second coming.

I take it that you would not disagree that he is Islamophobic.
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Who are these white supremacists?

There's also people that have worked with him and for him, who have said that they've never heard him utter one racist word in the time they've known him. People who have worked with him in the entertainment industry, in the military and at Brietbart.

Brietbart is merely a platform for free speech without censorship so it will undoubtedly attract opinions that are distasteful. Bannon himself has stated that he does not agree with everything on written on the site and describes himself an american nationalist with no outwardly hate to others.

Phobia is an irrational fear. It's not irrational to be worried about large numbers coming into your country in a quick space of time, especially when many of the people do not remotely share our values. If you would like me to provide videos of what has been happening with the large uncontrolled influx of Africans in Greece I can do so but you do tend skip past videos you find not pushing your viewpoint. .

Poor white people ...Poor white privileged males is it ?
 
braineclipse said:
I'm not sure you got my point if that's the question you feel like asking. I'm not attacking or disputing your statements in this thread.

I'm saying that those things were thrown around about Trump during the election and he still got elected. The go-to-explanation for a lot of democrats and liberals seems to be to say that the people who voted for him are also racist, misogynist, islamophobic white supremacists. Continuing to throw those descriptions around at a lot of people who do not deserve them. This continues to water down these terms, and in my opinion the watering down of these terms goes some way towards explaining why someone who had all of those labels thrown at him still managed to get himself elected president.
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It's not to say the voters are too, it's too say they accept it in a Presidential candidate. Isn't that worrying too?
 
Rorschach said:
Fair enough. That's what he is doing anyway.
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The choice for the voter at the election, was for more of the same or something new. In the eight years under Obama, americans have seen taxes rises , they have also seen dependency on the food stamp increased by some 50%. America does not need more of the same it cannot forever be increasing it's $20 trillion national debt. It needs a low taxed economic policy implemented.

All the blame cannot be laid at Obama's door , the political establishment all have to take their share of the blame and Trump told them in his campaign, in at times an uncouth manner, not that they didn't deserve it . No doubt he will end up their puppet of that I'm sure.

But what really swung it for me is that in my near 60 years on this earth, he were the first US presidential nominee other than Ron Paul, that I heard state, "America must give up fighting these unnecessary wars , we must not be going around doing regime change". Hillary on the other hand for me at least, offered a nightmarish foreign policy.
 
galeforce said:
It's not to say the voters are too, it's too say they accept it in a Presidential candidate. Isn't that worrying too?
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It's worrying for some of them, but I don't think there were many single issue voters who chose Trump because of his racism. A lot of people probably voted for Trump despite those things and thought Clinton had had more issues connected to here that made it impossible to vote for her.

Misogyny was one of the clearest bigoted traits Trump showed signs of. Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump, despite the chance to have the first female president in US history. Did they vote for him because he was misogynistic? Perhaps some of them, but for the majority I really doubt it. I'm guessing the majority of women voted who voted for him did so despite those clear signs of misogyny.

The democrats and liberals who are blaming bigotry from Trump and the voters are imo oversimplifying things and overlooking the issues that actually got Trump elected. The issues Clinton and the democrats have overlooked for too long already. And meanwhile they're continuing the name calling and watering down of what should be very serious labels. Terms that should not be misused are being misused once again. To the detriment of everyone, except perhaps those who really are bigots who now find those labels attacked to an ever growing number of people.
 
scaramanga said:
I despise all religions equally. Each of them is as departed and evil as the next. I do, however, consider it perfectly acceptable for one to hate any individual (or group of) religion(s) as much or as little as one chooses.

Religion is a choice, and therefore different to those other attributes we protect from insult and ridicule - age, gender, sexual identity/preference, race, etc. Religion does not deserve to be protected and is fair game as far as I'm concerned.
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I wouldn't consider that to be Islamophobia
 
braineclipse said:
I'm not sure you got my point if that's the question you feel like asking. I'm not attacking or disputing your statements in this thread.

I'm saying that those things were thrown around about Trump during the election and he still got elected. The go-to-explanation for a lot of democrats and liberals seems to be to say that the people who voted for him are also racist, misogynist, islamophobic white supremacists. Continuing to throw those descriptions around at a lot of people who do not deserve them. This continues to water down these terms, and in my opinion the watering down of these terms goes some way towards explaining why someone who had all of those labels thrown at him still managed to get himself elected president.
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I don't think that you got the point I was making either. I was talking about Trump and his appointments so far.

I would support an analysis of the result that said people voted for Trump because they were racist or misogynist, although he undoubtedly got support from people who were. I think that we are seeing the results of a long tail of the 2008 crash.
 
milo said:
I don't think that you got the point I was making either. I was talking about Trump and his appointments so far.

I would support an analysis of the result that said people voted for Trump because they were racist or misogynist, although he undoubtedly got support from people who were. I think that we are seeing the results of a long tail of the 2008 crash.
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And I was answering Scara on his islamophobia comment.

The economic crash is certainly a part of it. And I think the connection between economic insecurity and growing xenophobia is fairly well established so the two are not isolated issues of course.
 
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