American politics

[wiziwig]

Meanwhile, anti democracy demonstrations are being staged across many US cities with some descending into violence, yet there's barely a mention of them in our UK media. Can you imagine the reaction if the Democrats had won the election and the cities were hit with anti Clinton demonstrations?

There's also, barely a mention of the fudge Donald Trump, Anti-Democracy demonstrations on this thread. Correction, not even a whisper about them, I wonder why that is ?

Imagine where this thread would now be, if the demonstrators were Trump supporters taking to the streets chanting, lock her up and also shouting obscenities about president elect Clinton? I'd imagine there'd be quite a few extra pages of outrage and condemnation with, fascist this, bigots that, nazis, racist xenophobes, homophobes, the KKK scum are on the streets with their violence and the odd call for Obama to get the tanks out on the streets

No riots in 2008 or 2012 that I can recall.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Meanwhile, anti democracy demonstrations are being staged across many US cities with some descending into violence, yet there's barely a mention of them in our UK media. Can you imagine the reaction if the Democrats had won the election and the cities were hit with anti Clinton demonstrations?

There's also, barely a mention of the fudge Donald Trump, Anti-Democracy demonstrations on this thread. Correction, not even a whisper about them, I wonder why that is ?

Imagine where this thread would now be, if the demonstrators were Trump supporters taking to the streets chanting, lock her up and also shouting obscenities about president elect Clinton? I'd imagine there'd be quite a few extra pages of outrage and condemnation with, fascist this, bigots that, nazis, racist xenophobes, homophobes, the KKK scum are on the streets with their violence and the odd call for Obama to get the tanks out on the streets

No riots in 2008 or 2012 that I can recall.

It happened here in 2015 too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

 

[wiziwig]

It happened here in 2015 too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

Also hardly reported at the time.

Were the demos across the cities of the UK as I can't recall them?

I guess some will argue that media coverage merely fuels it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Also hardly reported at the time.

Were the demos across the cities of the UK as I can't recall them?

I guess some will argue that media coverage merely fuels it.

I think in a few of the bigger cities where the Socialist Workers Party (now known as Momentum) can pull together a rent-a-mob.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Steve

I'm sure it was a Polish bloke, perhaps Jozef?

 

[wiziwig]

I think in a few of the bigger cities where the Socialist Workers Party (now known as Momentum) can pull together a rent-a-mob.

If people were to make time and actually look into who actually funds and who leads some of these civil disobedience movements such as Black Lives Matter, they may well get a surprise.

Here in the UK. I recall seeing a you tube video of a Class War demonstration outside Boris Johnson's home just after the Brexit result had come in ...It were an interview with an Eton accent leadership surrounded by his, dregs of society foot soldiers.

 

[Rorschach]

Meanwhile, anti democracy demonstrations are being staged across many US cities with some descending into violence, yet there's barely a mention of them in our UK media. Can you imagine the reaction if the Democrats had won the election and the cities were hit with anti Clinton demonstrations?

There's also, barely a mention of the fudge Donald Trump, Anti-Democracy demonstrations on this thread. Correction, not even a whisper about them, I wonder why that is ?

Imagine where this thread would now be, if the demonstrators were Trump supporters taking to the streets chanting, lock her up and also shouting obscenities about president elect Clinton? I'd imagine there'd be quite a few extra pages of outrage and condemnation with, fascist this, bigots that, nazis, racist xenophobes, homophobes, the KKK scum are on the streets with their violence and the odd call for Obama to get the tanks out on the streets

No riots in 2008 or 2012 that I can recall.

Actually it's been the main article on the Guardian website nearly every day it has happened. It is being widely reported.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why no one is really condemning these marches. Nobody really likes Trump as he is an arsehole. A fair portion of the people who voted for him think that too.

And if you want to get a little deeper more voters sided with Clinton than Trump. So maybe from another perspective these marches are actually pro-democracy!!!

Yes I realise this is a bit of windup post, and I can already see Trump softening on lots of his election promises before he has even gotten into office. The man likes to make money so I can imagine it won't be long before he is pocketing the generous donations from lobbyists just like everyone that went before.

 

[the dza]

I think in a few of the bigger cities where the Socialist Workers Party (now known as Momentum) can pull together a rent-a-mob.

The Socialist Workers Party has/had about 2 thousand members. Momentum has 20k members. Don't confuse people turning up at rallies and handing out protest signs that also have the SWP logo on with people who are actively involved with them.

I have to agree with @wiziwig , if Clinton had won and Trump voters were protesting, we'd never hear the end of it -- however, that is mostly because Trump said he wouldn't accept the result if he lost!

 

[wiziwig]

Actually it's been the main article on the Guardian website nearly every day it has happened. It is being widely reported.

Then I'm even further mystified why these momentous, 'cry for freedom' demonstrations, which must rank alongside the Tiananmen Square protests for their historic importance to our emancipation, have not been reported on this forum.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why no one is really condemning these marches. Nobody really likes Trump as he is an ********. A fair portion of the people who voted for him think that too.

A fair portion of the population like him too.

And if you want to get a little deeper more voters sided with Clinton than Trump. So maybe from another perspective these marches are actually pro-democracy!!!

If it were a one vote per person first past the post winner , then Trumps tactics would've been different. He ceded California.

Yes I realise this is a bit of windup post, and I can already see Trump softening on lots of his election promises before he has even gotten into office. The man likes to make money so I can imagine it won't be long before he is pocketing the generous donations from lobbyists just like everyone that went before.

Well that's how it normally works but I do think he will lower taxation allied to investment, which is what's needed and that perhaps, some of the political correctness entitlement indoctrination of the millennials in the education system, will slow up too.

 

[Rock Strongo]

I've been thinking. I think Donald will do just fine as President, he always lands on both feet. He'll do great, unintentionally.

 

[milo]

Meanwhile, anti democracy demonstrations are being staged across many US cities with some descending into violence, yet there's barely a mention of them in our UK media. Can you imagine the reaction if the Democrats had won the election and the cities were hit with anti Clinton demonstrations?

There's also, barely a mention of the fudge Donald Trump, Anti-Democracy demonstrations on this thread. Correction, not even a whisper about them, I wonder why that is ?

Imagine where this thread would now be, if the demonstrators were Trump supporters taking to the streets chanting, lock her up and also shouting obscenities about president elect Clinton? I'd imagine there'd be quite a few extra pages of outrage and condemnation with, fascist this, bigots that, nazis, racist xenophobes, homophobes, the KKK scum are on the streets with their violence and the odd call for Obama to get the tanks out on the streets

No riots in 2008 or 2012 that I can recall.

I don't know where you get your news from but I've seen quite wide coverage of the protests.

I also think that is disingenuous to say that they are anti-democracy protests. Democracy doesn't stop when a vote has been cast. People have every right to make their views heard and protest when they disagree with something.

What we are seeing in the States and in the UK is the hard right trying to silence dissent and avoid debate. This is anti-democracy. Not people making their voice heard.

I also do not think that a politician who said that he would not respect the result if it went against him, is in any position to criticise anyone else for protesting against the result.

 

[milo]

...I can already see Trump softening on lots of his election promises before he has even gotten into office. The man likes to make money so I can imagine it won't be long before he is pocketing the generous donations from lobbyists just like everyone that went before.

Trump has shown that his words cannot be trusted, so I would not read too much into his recent interviews other than that most of what he promised during the campaign is impossible to deliver.

What we can judge him on though is his actions. Appointing a white supremacist, anti-Semite as one of his closest advisors is a signal of where he is at and tells us a lot more about him than his hollow words about wanting to be a president for all Americans.

 

[Rorschach]

Then I'm even further mystified why these momentous, 'cry for freedom' demonstrations, which must rank alongside the Tiananmen Square protests for their historic importance to our emancipation, have not been reported on this forum.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why no one is really condemning these marches. Nobody really likes Trump as he is an ********. A fair portion of the people who voted for him think that too.

A fair portion of the population like him too.





And if you want to get a little deeper more voters sided with Clinton than Trump. So maybe from another perspective these marches are actually pro-democracy!!!

If it were a one vote per person first past the post winner , then Trumps tactics would've been different. He ceded California.

Yes I realise this is a bit of windup post, and I can already see Trump softening on lots of his election promises before he has even gotten into office. The man likes to make money so I can imagine it won't be long before he is pocketing the generous donations from lobbyists just like everyone that went before.

Well that's how it normally works but I do think he will lower taxation allied to investment, which is what's needed and that perhaps, some of the political correctness entitlement indoctrination of the millennials in the education system, will slow up too.

Mate there are some fairly momentous news items that pass this site by on a daily basis. I wouldn't use this site as barometer of what is newsworthy or not, but to compare the current spate of protests in the US cities to Tiananmen Square is not a sensible comparison on any level.

As for his policies, well who knows what they are. I doubt he even does himself.

 

[Mr_B]

Trump has shown that his words cannot be trusted, so I would not read too much into his recent interviews other than that most of what he promised during the campaign is impossible to deliver.

What we can judge him on though is his actions. Appointing a white supremacist, anti-Semite as one of his closest advisors is a signal of where he is at and tells us a lot more about him than his hollow words about wanting to be a president for all Americans.

One thing that will never happen in the US is anti-semitism, 81% of evangelicals voted for Trump and they are ardent supporters of Israel mainly on the basis that in their belief, the messiah will only come if Israel is controlled/run by the jewish people, Republicans maybe because of their hawkish nature are by and large very pro-israel, look at Ted cruz's comments in the primaries.

 

[milo]

One thing that will never happen in the US is anti-semitism, 81% of evangelicals voted for Trump and they are ardent supporters of Israel mainly on the basis that in their belief, the messiah will only come if Israel is controlled/run by the jewish people, Republicans maybe because of their hawkish nature are by and large very pro-israel, look at Ted cruz's comments in the primaries.

Trump frequently spread lies and fear about minority groups during his campaign. I think that he is always likely to pick on weaker groups in society because it is easier and they have less power but by appointing Steve Bannon, who is an anti-Semite and white supremacist, to be his chief policy and strategy advisor he has shown that attacking minorities is unlikely to stop.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Meanwhile, anti democracy demonstrations are being staged across many US cities with some descending into violence, yet there's barely a mention of them in our UK media. Can you imagine the reaction if the Democrats had won the election and the cities were hit with anti Clinton demonstrations?

There's also, barely a mention of the fudge Donald Trump, Anti-Democracy demonstrations on this thread. Correction, not even a whisper about them, I wonder why that is ?

Imagine where this thread would now be, if the demonstrators were Trump supporters taking to the streets chanting, lock her up and also shouting obscenities about president elect Clinton? I'd imagine there'd be quite a few extra pages of outrage and condemnation with, fascist this, bigots that, nazis, racist xenophobes, homophobes, the KKK scum are on the streets with their violence and the odd call for Obama to get the tanks out on the streets

No riots in 2008 or 2012 that I can recall.

What ARE you going on about? They are just setting their stall from the their president, who repeatedly said in the lead up to the election that the result was rigged against him and that he would only accept the result if he won. Hoist by his own petard. Wreckers need to be careful.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Yeah Yankee, read imperialist. Those behind the CIA shonky destabilisation programs, not Americans per se Scara.

 

[Jordinho]

 

[Seedy Ron]

He just didn't mention he was draining the swamp into the White House. No biggy.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I also think that is disingenuous to say that they are anti-democracy protests. Democracy doesn't stop when a vote has been cast. People have every right to make their views heard and protest when they disagree with something.

I do think it's particularly bad form to protest about an election result (unless there are reasonable suspicions of corruption). The whole tester of a democracy is the turnover test - whether all sides freely give up power when they lose.

When you lose an election the way to behave is with dignity. Retreat and re-strategise. Re-energise your supporters and find new solutions so you can start winning the intellectual arguments. And dedicate yourself to your opposite briefs. Like Labour under Smith/Blair and the Tories under Howard/Cameron.

Protesting the result is just very unhealthy and sets really bad precedents.