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American politics

Honestly feels like your trolling.

But it happens a lit in this and the political thread that people only criticise someone on the opposite side of 'their' politics. Where as if you were all as fair minded and deeply cynical as me the world would be a fair and healthier place.

Does not surprise me to see you come in to the debate as you have a long history of trolling, rather then just debating a position on a topic.

I've tried to be fair in stating you've made some reasonable points that I agree with for what it's worth!

But it seems like you've got a mental block in terms of your understanding of the Biden comment. It's not offensive to state that somebody is responsible for improving the funding going towards a good cause. In your not comprehending this point, it gives off the impression that it is you that is on the wind up.

You can say you're offended by something, but if when pressed on why, your follow up clearly shows you've made a fundamental misunderstanding of the comment then it renders the "offense" you suffered invalid / misplaced at best. It's not about left or right or how you consider my posting history, these are fairly irrelevant tangents. More reasonable posters that are definitely more patient than I am have tried to explain in a respectful way but it's not getting through.

If you don't consider what I post to be sincere that's your prerogative, that doesn't change that when I make mistakes (which everyone does apart from the resident sociopaths of course) I own them. Claiming your some kind of master of impartiality whilst sticking your head in the sand on the Biden comment is delightfully ironic, keep up the good work matey!
 
I should just leave it alone but it's fascinating to see it unfold in real time. Never change DFL, it's unbelievably frustrating and is a cracking microcosm for humans / communication in general lol.
...I was just about to post something similar.

This specific Biden chat, and also one of the threads over in SN&V's......Hours upon hours could be wasted on something with no realistic conclusion, going round in circles. Most of it trivial subject matter

It would be an interesting experiment to roll back 5/10 years and trawl through some old threads...just to analyse debating style, receptiveness, openness, awareness, cadence, tolerance etc.

WTF has happened?
 
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DFL is making a valid point that people don't hold Trump and Biden to the same standards i.e. if Trump said something, most posters here are going to assume the evil angle and castigate him because he is an evil person, whereas if Biden said the same thing most posters here will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is "OK" i.e. the lesser of two evils.
It is true we don't hold them to the same standards, because Trump is in the 1% of worst humans on planet earth so we naturally assume the worst.
It is true that we don't hold them to the same standards, so DFL is pointing that out.

No need to go round and round in circles on that.
 
Yes, it has to be all of the time or none of the time. You can't pick and choose to suit your agenda.
It's not a good way to communicate or interpret the communication of others imo. You're just missing out on way too much available information.

I'm just taking his words at face value same as I do all public figures. Also suggesting that the are real meanings behind statements mean that anyone can say that to back any statement.

Perhaps a Trump supporter could come out and say that Trump meant something else when Trump said he would let Putin do whatever he wanted.

I'm no more entrenched in my view then you or the others. I just have a different view, but rather then accepting that people have different views you go down the path of saying I'm entrenched in my view, thus trying to belittle that view.

Its been done to death and am happy to leave it. You don't think it was offensive, I do. I know someone going against the majority on here baffles you guys.


My point being that when you have two different people held to different standards it can be dangerous for an electorate to think that things are fair.
Problem being that usually when people speak there is a meaning they're trying to communicate.

Language is a tool used to communicate. Ignoring the communication of meaning to focus only on the literal words they say is like using a hammer to destroy the planks you're planning to join together. Using language to avoid communication of meaning.

Human communication is and will forever be imperfect and sometimes difficult. That's not solved by taking everything literally, quite the opposite.
 
DFL is making a valid point that people don't hold Trump and Biden to the same standards i.e. if Trump said something, most posters here are going to assume the evil angle and castigate him because he is an evil person, whereas if Biden said the same thing most posters here will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is "OK" i.e. the lesser of two evils.
It is true we don't hold them to the same standards, because Trump is in the 1% of worst humans on planet earth so we naturally assume the worst.
It is true that we don't hold them to the same standards, so DFL is pointing that out.

No need to go round and round in circles on that.
It would be ridiculous if we didn't treat Trump and Biden in part based on what they've said and done before. (I think we agree).

This specific example is not that though.
 
...I was just about to post something similar.

This specific Biden chat, and also one of the threads over in SN&V's......Hours upon hours could be wasted on something with no realistic conclusion, going round in circles. Most of it trivial subject matter

It would be an interesting experiment to roll back 5/10 years and trawl through some old threads...just to analyse debating style, receptiveness, openness, awareness, cadence, tolerance etc.

WTF has happened?
My impression is that this place has stayed mostly the same for quite a while. I can certainly remember wasting hours going around in circles for a very long time on here (perhaps says more about me than the board, but hey).

If anything compared to many other places on the web this place has improved by not regressing further into absolute nonsense.
 
DFL is making a valid point that people don't hold Trump and Biden to the same standards i.e. if Trump said something, most posters here are going to assume the evil angle and castigate him because he is an evil person, whereas if Biden said the same thing most posters here will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is "OK" i.e. the lesser of two evils.
It is true we don't hold them to the same standards, because Trump is in the 1% of worst humans on planet earth so we naturally assume the worst.
It is true that we don't hold them to the same standards, so DFL is pointing that out.

No need to go round and round in circles on that.
You put that in one short post so much better then I did in lots of long ones.

Trump us a cnut, fool evil whatever ones you like. That we all agree on.
 
Trump now at evens on betfair to win in November.

Never happen though, not with the great lucid Biden as his opponent :rolleyes:

Whatever happens, Trump won’t concede even if he loses by 50 million votes. That’s the safest bet in the world. He still hasn’t conceded the last election. Too close to call but I’m still hopeful the voters will do the right thing and elect Biden. Hopefully abortion will come back to bite the Republicans as the decision to overrun Roe v Wade really hasn’t been very popular, even some republicans don’t like it. Or Trump might just die. He’s 78 after all and should have died years ago, just look at him, he can’t have a healthy diet.
 
Something about Trump that doesn’t get talked about a lot but is damning in my eyes, he orders steak well done. What sort of sociopath orders the best meat in the world but ruins it by asking for all the flavour to be removed from it by overcooking it?!
 
Something about Trump that doesn’t get talked about a lot but is damning in my eyes, he orders steak well done. What sort of sociopath orders the best meat in the world but ruins it by asking for all the flavour to be removed from it by overcooking it?!
Medium is the only way I have it. The French do it the worst, couple of times I thought a skilled vet might have been able to bring it back to life
 
Whatever happens, Trump won’t concede even if he loses by 50 million votes. That’s the safest bet in the world. He still hasn’t conceded the last election. Too close to call but I’m still hopeful the voters will do the right thing and elect Biden. Hopefully abortion will come back to bite the Republicans as the decision to overrun Roe v Wade really hasn’t been very popular, even some republicans don’t like it. Or Trump might just die. He’s 78 after all and should have died years ago, just look at him, he can’t have a healthy diet.

Only the good die young.
 
Nate White penned the best description of Donald Trump I’ve ever read:

“Why do most British people, and other Europeans, not like Donald Trump?”

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the we traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, dingdong Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of brick. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

GHod knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My GHod… what… have… I… created?' If being a taco was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.”

-Nate White
 
Nate White penned the best description of Donald Trump I’ve ever read:

“Why do most British people, and other Europeans, not like Donald Trump?”

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the we traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, dingdong Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of brick. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

GHod knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My GHod… what… have… I… created?' If being a taco was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.”

-Nate White

A lot of truth in there, however I don't like the body shaming and I would argue that Americans are not nicer than us.
 
Nate White penned the best description of Donald Trump I’ve ever read:

“Why do most British people, and other Europeans, not like Donald Trump?”

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the we traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, dingdong Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of brick. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

GHod knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My GHod… what… have… I… created?' If being a taco was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.”

-Nate White

I’ve never seen that before. In terms of accuracy, it’s right up there with Johnson’s Housemaster’s report on our own slug.
 
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