American politics

[Gilzeantoscore]

A vote for Clinton is a vote for establishment politics, a vote for Wall Street and pretty much a vote for GOP Lite. Only Sanders offers genuine change. It would be a great pity if people turned away from him due to some perception he can't win, because it will mean a conservative wins either way. Feel the Bern!

 

[monkeybarry]

@VermontSpur @scaramanga - it's irrelevant whether he is or isn't a socialist. It is how the Republicans will portray him, media assault will be brutal and it will register with (scare) enough voters to mean that he could never win.

To many US voters, and the media furore, you are socialist if you want other than money, greatness, the might of America and destruction of "insert county to invade to justify military industry" here

 

[scaramanga]

To many US voters, and the media furore, you are socialist if you want other than money, greatness, the might of America and destruction of "insert county to invade to justify military industry" here

It's more than that though.

On many of his policies he'd be aligned more with Labour in this country. Bearing in mind how far to the left our politics are compared to Murrica, fudge Yeah! that's very left wing for them.

Whilst their political centre is too far to the right on social issues for my liking, they have good reason to be afraid of their economy taking a lurch to the left.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's more than that though.

On many of his policies he'd be aligned more with Labour in this country. Bearing in mind how far to the left our politics are compared to Murrica, fudge Yeah! that's very left wing for them.

Whilst their political centre is too far to the right on social issues for my liking, they have good reason to be afraid of their economy taking a lurch to the left.

Who are 'they'? Oh you mean the top five percent or so, the elite. Yes, I guess they would be worried about someone coming into power who would remove their stranglehold on the economy and polity.

 

[milo]

Who are 'they'? Oh you mean the top five percent or so, the elite. Yes, I guess they would be worried about someone coming into power who would remove their stranglehold on the economy and polity.

It is not the top 5% who keep politicians like Sanders out of high office. We haven't seen a politician with views like this be able to gain popular support in either the States or UK.

 

[monkeybarry]

Who are 'they'? Oh you mean the top five percent or so, the elite. Yes, I guess they would be worried about someone coming into power who would remove their stranglehold on the economy and polity.

True, but I think alot of the fear filters down into much of the electorate.

Even the lefties I know in California have some views that scare Tories. And the people that grew up in other parts of the US are very fearful of anything lefty as there is such a large connection with Communism in US rhetoric, especially amongst the generations (and there offspring) that have any resonance with Vietnam

 

[scaramanga]

Who are 'they'? Oh you mean the top five percent or so, the elite. Yes, I guess they would be worried about someone coming into power who would remove their stranglehold on the economy and polity.

If someone that far to the left of their current structure gets voted in it won't just be the top 5% that need worry.

When the lefties fudge the economy everyone suffers - at least anyone with a job, a house, savings, etc. It's what happens every time - the left get voted in and fudge brick up by making money out of unicorn farts and rainbow juice. Then we have to vote in tosspots like Osborne to fix it all.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

If someone that far to the left of their current structure gets voted in it won't just be the top 5% that need worry.

When the lefties fudge the economy everyone suffers - at least anyone with a job, a house, savings, etc. It's what happens every time - the left get voted in and fudge brick up by making money out of unicorn farts and rainbow juice. Then we have to vote in tosspots like Osborne to fix it all.

I have a job, a house with mortgage, some savings and that has never been my experience or that of my peer group. My standard of living always suffers when the Tories get in. So it's the lefts fault for Osborne...ha, ha.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

True, but I think alot of the fear filters down into much of the electorate.

Even the lefties I know in California have some views that scare Tories. And the people that grew up in other parts of the US are very fearful of anything lefty as there is such a large connection with Communism in US rhetoric, especially amongst the generations (and there offspring) that have any resonance with Vietnam

The Cold War warriors are dying out and that is something the Tea Party types fail to appreciate. If you had said to me twenty years ago that someone like Bernie Sanders would a legitimate candidate for the Democratic nomination, I would have laughed at you. The last person anywhere near as left wing as him was Ralph Nader and he failed pretty miserably when he ran as an independent. Feel the Bern!

 

[monkeybarry]

The Cold War warriors are dying out and that is something the Tea Party types fail to appreciate. If you had said to me twenty years ago that someone like Bernie Sanders would a legitimate candidate for the Democratic nomination, I would have laughed at you. The last person anywhere near as left wing as him was Ralph Nader and he failed pretty miserably when he ran as an independent. Feel the Bern!

Very true, and he will get traction (he is!) to influence the future. But I think there are still enough people to stop him getting elected now.
It is refreshing he is doing so well though.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It is not the top 5% who keep politicians like Sanders out of high office. We haven't seen a politician with views like this be able to gain popular support in either the States or UK.

What are you talking about? Haven't you heard of Clement Attlee? Being a democratic socialist used to be mainstream, until the spin merchants of the right wing press and the City and Wall Street types concluded it was dead. Guess what? Many, many people did not swallow their crap then, or now. Are you telling me that Clinton will not get a super top up of funds from Wall Street if Sanders looks like winning? There is even talk of drafting someone else in, if he gets the democratic nomination. The establishment don't want somebody that they cannot control.

 

[scaramanga]

I have a job, a house with mortgage, some savings and that has never been my experience or that of my peer group. My standard of living always suffers when the Tories get in. So it's the lefts fault for Osborne...ha, ha.

Your taxes increase, the risk of losing your job increases and the rates you would pay on your mortgage would increase under socialists.

That must be quite the job and house you have to not notice.

 

[the dza]

What are you talking about? Haven't you heard of Clement Attlee? Being a democratic socialist used to be mainstream, until the spin merchants of the right wing press and the City and Wall Street types concluded it was dead. Guess what? Many, many people did not swallow their crap then, or now. Are you telling me that Clinton will not get a super top up of funds from Wall Street if Sanders looks like winning? There is even talk of drafting someone else in, if he gets the democratic nomination. The establishment don't want somebody that they cannot control.

I'd like this post x100 if I could.

 

[VermontSpur]

@VermontSpur @scaramanga - it's irrelevant whether he is or isn't a socialist. It is how the Republicans will portray him, media assault will be brutal and it will register with (scare) enough voters to mean that he could never win.

With all due respect, I think you are a little off on this assumption. The key is to get the younger voters motivated to hit the polls in the numbers needed, as this demographic is consistently the one with lowest voter turnout. Sanders polls better than Clinton head to head against each and every possible Republican nominee. He's got the momentum, and he's no longer a longshot.

 

[milo]

With all due respect, I think you are a little off on this assumption. The key is to get the younger voters motivated to hit the polls in the numbers needed, as this demographic is consistently the one with lowest voter turnout. Sanders polls better than Clinton head to head against each and every possible Republican nominee. He's got the momentum, and he's no longer a longshot.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong but I think that targeting non-voters is like trying to sell a car to people without a driving licence.

 

[VermontSpur]

We are defined by our actions, not how we describe ourselves. Otherwise Captain Bellend would be the best manager in the world and rSol the most honest footballer.

He associates with socialists, he eulogises socialists and he presents socialist policies. He can call himself Sarah Palin if he likes, it doesn't change what he is.

The only reason this is seen as a negative is that there are so many macarons in this country who believe that socialism and communism are the same thing. Why is socialism a negative?

 

[VermontSpur]

Maybe I'll be proved wrong but I think that targeting non-voters is like trying to sell a car to people without a driving licence.

The difference is that this election has gotten younger voters excited again. Sanders is seen as unique among a sea of establishment politicians, and his policies have the ability to positively affect issues that my (I'm 32) generation has had a pretty awful time with. So many of us have crippling student loans, and the frustration that the US government has been making money off of students, and not charging interest rates nearly as high to corporate entities, will get voters out. I think that the thing people are realizing, and what has caused Sanders to surge in the polls over the past months, is that we have a chance to finally elect someone who is committed to our interests.

I may be wrong, but the groundswell of support is very real.

 

[milo]

The difference is that this election has gotten younger voters excited again. Sanders is seen as unique among a sea of establishment politicians, and his policies have the ability to positively affect issues that my (I'm 32) generation has had a pretty awful time with. So many of us have crippling student loans, and the frustration that the US government has been making money off of students, and not charging interest rates nearly as high to corporate entities, will get voters out. I think that the thing people are realizing, and what has caused Sanders to surge in the polls over the past months, is that we have a chance to finally elect someone who is committed to our interests.

I may be wrong, but the groundswell of support is very real.

Let's see. I'll certainly be interested to see whether there has been an increase in registration.

 

[VermontSpur]

Let's see. I'll certainly be interested to see whether there has been an increase in registration.

It's not even necessarily down to a registration increase; there is an infuriatingly high percentage of registered voters who don't make it to the polls. But yes, I'm interested to see if there is an uptick in registration as well!

 

[AuroRaman]

@VermontSpur Thanks for your insight. Apologies if you have already written before about this, what are your thoughts on the current administration and also policies/bills/legislations that Obama has tried (successfully and/or unsuccessfully) to pass?