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American politics

Rorschach said:
I don't think he expected to win, or was really planning to. He saw it as an infomercial for his failing brand. His puppeteers had other ideas of course. If he loses this election it is over for him and his crime family.

The thing that amazes me (one of the things I suppose) is that he was allowed to run. His criminality over the previous 40 years, his family's ties with the Italian mafia and then his with the Russian mafia were well known to almost everyone in NY, including the FBI I assume. The Russian mafia was operating out of Trump Tower in NY. Manafort was his campaign manager ffs. It was all happening in plain sight and yet he was still allowed to run.
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In one of the journalist books after the election (might have been Fear by Bob Woodward), the claim, from someone who was in the room, said Trump was in shock, and Melania in tears, they wanted not to win.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Of innovation or refreshing politics? If so, that is the issue. There isn't any true innovation examples. Possible areas to shake-up and innovate shooting from the hip - using electronic voting for small things to allow new forms of democracy. Working in conjunction with media, presentations, films which present ideas and people get involved in, vote for etc.

New ways of running ministries or institutions of government. Private companies that were as stagnant as government agencies would go out of business in a flash for being so ineffective. Yet we perpetuate and stick with stale institutions that drive and control nations. They are safe, but also failing us. etc etc etc
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All very noble but surely Brexit shows us democracy doesnt work and how do you connect with the 90% of the population who only want to look at porn or cats playing on the internet?
 
scaramanga said:
The answer to unsuitable political candidates can be found at the polling booth.

A large proportion (although not a majority) of US voters didn't seem to care.
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I would say in this case they were not fully aware of who Trump was. The Trump of the apprentice was the one that most knew but this person was a construct for a reality show. However, the intelligence community were well aware of who he was. There were red flags before, figuratively and literally, and they were ignored.
 
Baleforce said:
In one of the journalist books after the election (might have been Fear by Bob Woodward), the claim, from someone who was in the room, said Trump was in shock, and Melania in tears, they wanted not to win.
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Yeah it was in that. I used my audible trial on this book :(.
 
Rorschach said:
I would say in this case they were not fully aware of who Trump was. The Trump of the apprentice was the one that most knew but this person was a construct for a reality show. However, the intelligence community were well aware of who he was. There were red flags before, figuratively and literally, and they were ignored.
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I thought everyone knew of how Trump does business.

Maybe not the Russia stuff, but the Mafia and dodgy New York stuff has been common knowledge for a long time.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Well alot of his actions have been to cut through red tape in federal infrastructure, probably because he does not like detail and maybe he chanced on it all by luck but he does seem to have a sense of going for the jugular to get things over the line* rather than have it kicked down the road.

*the caveat there is that its generally when he thinks its a good idea

I am not saying he is a good president BTW I was merely saying that I think that bullish nature is needed just in a better shell than Trump ha
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Uh huh. Remember, from that big political music rally not long ago, that there was a 'warning on the brown acid'. It still holds, I think.

 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
All very noble but surely Brexit shows us democracy doesnt work and how do you connect with the 90% of the population who only want to look at porn or cats playing on the internet?
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Brexit was an advisory vote, that got steamrollered into a binding vote somehow. Normally when you have seismic referendum a majority of the nation need to approve it. Only a third did. So again, this shows a systemic failure, rather than a failure of the people.

Those who are interested in cats, I have no gripes with them. We elect politicians to represent us. We hope they do a job for us. When it comes to ideas or laws on animal rights, or porn, then maybe these people would be more interested in engaging by watching a presentation on YouTube, making their point online, and placing an advisory vote?

We need dedicated elected people making decisions for us. That shouldn't change. But there is potential to get more people engaged.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Brexit was an advisory vote, that got steamrollered into a binding vote somehow. Normally when you have seismic referendum a majority of the nation need to approve it. Only a third did. So again, this shows a systemic failure, rather than a failure of the people.

Those who are interested in cats, I have no gripes with them. We elect politicians to represent us. We hope they do a job for us. When it comes to ideas or laws on animal rights, or porn, then maybe these people would be more interested in engaging by watching a presentation on YouTube, making their point online, and placing an advisory vote?

We need dedicated elected people making decisions for us. That shouldn't change. But there is potential to get more people engaged.
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I totally agree with your thought but in our country very few people are interested in anything but themselves and have little or no interest in anything that does not effect themselves, we have managed to fulfil Mrs Thatchers prophecy "theres no such thing as society"

The modern world changes so quickly its extremely difficult to plan for the future and what looks like a sensible decision today is outdated before it can be put in place.

In most countries leadership is handed to late middle aged men who surround themselves with their peers and have little conection with the populous. These people have little interest in changing anything that would reduce their status.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Brexit was an advisory vote, that got steamrollered into a binding vote somehow. Normally when you have seismic referendum a majority of the nation need to approve it. Only a third did. So again, this shows a systemic failure, rather than a failure of the people.

Those who are interested in cats, I have no gripes with them. We elect politicians to represent us. We hope they do a job for us. When it comes to ideas or laws on animal rights, or porn, then maybe these people would be more interested in engaging by watching a presentation on YouTube, making their point online, and placing an advisory vote?

We need dedicated elected people making decisions for us. That shouldn't change. But there is potential to get more people engaged.
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The issue there is the third that did not vote you assume are not bothered so there can be no real gripe in the result of those that do. Get busy living or Get busy dying is the saying.

The issue with politics is like life opinions are like arseholes everyone has one so to find systems or answers that represents all is never going to materialise.

I remember when I worked for 6 years in Canada and when Trudeau came in and the country were joyous, the major socialist PM who would change the country for the good but eventually you realise that all politicians, even the great white hopes are all self serving and would not be left to run a kindergarden let alone a country.

The major issue with politics is not just a lack of engagement from politicians but questions from people come election time. There are many ways to engage with your local MP if you want to, more so closer to election time but how many people can say they have really done that? I bet its a small percentage and those on here now already know which way they will vote come the next election without even engaging with their local MP.

Everyone could do more.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I totally agree with your thought but in our country very few people are interested in anything but themselves and have little or no interest in anything that does not effect themselves, we have managed to fulfil Mrs Thatchers prophecy "theres no such thing as society"

The modern world changes so quickly its extremely difficult to plan for the future and what looks like a sensible decision today is outdated before it can be put in place.

In most countries leadership is handed to late middle aged men who surround themselves with their peers and have little conection with the populous. These people have little interest in changing anything that would reduce their status.
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I don't know. At the beginning of covid, people were fully onside. An amazing amount of people observed lockdown. We all supported the NHS as a collective - even cheering them once a week from our porches, balconies and windows.

People are not the problem. Weak leadership often is. Now, we have lost national belief, and we don't have clear messaging for people. So there isn't the collective spirit there was at the start of covid.

But the bigger piece is that to engage people in politics you need invention and newness. In all other media spheres things reinvent and refresh. Popularism is just a pent up need for things to be new and different. We should be looking at ways to refresh and improve political and governmental systems. Instead they stay stuck in a similar state to previous centuries.
 
SpurMeUp said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-pointless-masochistic-ambition-history-done

See paragraph on super-majority.
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I hate to tell you this but what have linked there;
  1. Is an opinion piece
  2. Is written by a novelist
  3. Does not show that "Normally when you have seismic referendum a majority of the nation need to approve it."
  4. Links to a paper that does not show that "Normally when you have seismic referendum a majority of the nation need to approve it."
I think your argument was better without a source.
 
I have to disagree people are the problem, as soon as covid restrictions began to get annoying to their needs they start to put pressure on local politicians or ignoring guidelines.

On this site we have many calling for allowing fans to return without any thought of the logistic of such action and the risks, just for a sporting pastime. Many people complaining about their kids education were more concerned with get them off their hands and the bloody stupidity of allowing pubs to open to appease the feckless is beyond belief and that's the opinion of a dedicated boozer.

We live in a "ME" culture and it will take a massive wakeup call to change this.
 
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