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Acid Attacks

Danishfurniturelover said:
To go back into society and not re-offend. I can assure you through my wife I know of plenty of charities set up to help them on their way. As I said in my first post I can see the benefit of teaching prisoners life and work skills so they can get jobs, also very important they get treatment for addictions. But punishment has to be a consequence of breaking the law.
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Charities, whilst welcome, cannot be the solution - they are sporadic and have no guarantee of funding or longevity.

We need investment in the national offender management service and to remove the role of helping people back into the community from being private business ( as it currently is all too often) to the public sector again.

Making prisoners live in squalor will only lead to destroying their humanity - this might sound like a nice Draconian punishment method, but we have a better understanding of human phycology than the Victorians now and know that you cannot expect someone to go from being dehumanised to a functional member of society over night.
I have seen the conditions some prisoner live in- you wouldn't treat war criminals the same way.
 
scaramanga said:
I think that life is better than the bare survival minimum. I think there's an opportunity to get people that want more than the bare minimum to work for it.
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Unfortunately we have a situation where we have large disparity between prisons.
But I can assure you the conditions are not conducive to creating a nice environment - I would go so far as to say some conditions are very regressive from both a punishment and rehabilitation angle.
And the opportunities for progress and development are nowhere near adequate, let alone a functional part of a justice system.

And the prison service is so stretched that it sometimes isn't possible for prisoners who want to improve to do so as resources are not available - that is if they can find a way to keep themselves safe inside (that isn't just a case of keeping you head down at some prisons)

I have seen some conditions that would make you genuinely sick.
 
And anyone talking about chain gang approach - how do you feel about that and your own liberty? If you make an industry out of it you need workers, therefore you need criminals, so you create a NEED for supply. I don't want a government that is looking to lock up more people because it is more profitable than the public or private sector building the new infrastructure.
 
monkeybarry said:
Unfortunately we have a situation where we have large disparity between prisons.
But I can assure you the conditions are not conducive to creating a nice environment - I would go so far as to say some conditions are very regressive from both a punishment and rehabilitation angle.
And the opportunities for progress and development are nowhere near adequate, let alone a functional part of a justice system.

And the prison service is so stretched that it sometimes isn't possible for prisoners who want to improve to do so as resources are not available - that is if they can find a way to keep themselves safe inside (that isn't just a case of keeping you head down at some prisons)

I have seen some conditions that would make you genuinely sick.
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Putting them to work would improve finances and therefore ability to look after them, surely?
 
scaramanga said:
Putting them to work would improve finances and therefore ability to look after them, surely?
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My post above questions the difficulties with that approach.
I have mixed views.

But either way, it is outside the scope of the current system. So to bring us back on topic slightly, the conditions in the current system are definitely not conducive to a future goal of social reintegration.
 
I don't think right and wrong is as case of right or left.

If someone throws acid in someones face in an attempt to disfigure and seriously harm is there a right and left view to how they should be dealt with?
 
monkeybarry said:
My post above questions the difficulties with that approach.
I have mixed views.

But either way, it is outside the scope of the current system. So to bring us back on topic slightly, the conditions in the current system are definitely not conducive to a future goal of social reintegration.
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I certainly believe that rehabilitation is important. I also can see that for a decent sized chunk of society, rehabilitation is unlikely to ever work.

There are some people who have just accepted jail time as a part of their lives - jail is no longer a deterrent and they have no interest in rehabilitation. I can't accept that these people are just a cost on society - they need to pay their own way just like the rest of us.
 
scaramanga said:
I certainly believe that rehabilitation is important. I also can see that for a decent sized chunk of society, rehabilitation is unlikely to ever work.

There are some people who have just accepted jail time as a part of their lives - jail is no longer a deterrent and they have no interest in rehabilitation. I can't accept that these people are just a cost on society - they need to pay their own way just like the rest of us.
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There are some, yes. So there could be a case that your position applies to certain criteria of prisoners - multiple repeat offenders or offenders that choose to not actively engage in a process to prove they are no longer a risk to the public.
But I don't think a blanket approach would work.

The flip side there however, if someone isn't prepared to engage in rehabilitation activities, how do you get them to engage in forced labour in a way that actually produces any kind of valuable quality of work?
 
scaramanga said:
There are some people who have just accepted jail time as a part of their lives - jail is no longer a deterrent and they have no interest in rehabilitation. I can't accept that these people are just a cost on society - they need to pay their own way just like the rest of us.
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I can't agree with this enough.

There is no doubt that there are a large portion of repeat offenders, those that see crime as a way of life and prison as a pretty easy consequence of that life, people might not believe that but its true. Prison is not a deterrent, people will commit crime for they life they want/enjoy, they get caught, happy to do the time, prison becomes almost a norm for them like having to visit the dentist for a check up every now and then, for alot of crims its that simple.

For me like Scara it seems mental that the public fund prisoners who choose this life in the same fashion we would our own health care, police, fire etc.

Put them to work for sure, make prison a deterrent or make the prison system pay for itself win win
 
Grays_1890 said:
I can't agree with this enough.

Put them to work for sure, make prison a deterrent or make the prison system pay for itself win win
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Don't the US try to do this already - does not appear to be successful to me huge incarnation and reoffending rates.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I can't agree with this enough.

There is no doubt that there are a large portion of repeat offenders, those that see crime as a way of life and prison as a pretty easy consequence of that life, people might not believe that but its true. Prison is not a deterrent, people will commit crime for they life they want/enjoy, they get caught, happy to do the time, prison becomes almost a norm for them like having to visit the dentist for a check up every now and then, for alot of crims its that simple.

For me like Scara it seems mental that the public fund prisoners who choose this life in the same fashion we would our own health care, police, fire etc.

Put them to work for sure, make prison a deterrent or make the prison system pay for itself win win
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Reoffending rates for adults is 25%
Juveniles 44%
Adults released from custody 38%

I'm not so sure that 1:3 prisoners receiving a custodial sentence is so wrapped in crime they just carry on.
If you are released without support and equipped to fight to find work in a society that shuns you because you committed a crime, then you are far more likely to reoffend.
 
monkeybarry said:
The flip side there however, if someone isn't prepared to engage in rehabilitation activities, how do you get them to engage in forced labour in a way that actually produces any kind of valuable quality of work?
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Easy, you give them jobs based on what they do and can do, you also reward effort and punish those that don't tow the line. The parallels are that I don't work hard I get sacked and I am a law abiding citizen, criminals parallel would be to have privileges or luxuries revoked.

I am all for human rights but I don't see where human rights come into a case of being made to work for your board regardless if you are a crim
 
monkeybarry said:
Reoffending rates for adults is 25%
Juveniles 44%
Adults released from custody 38%

I'm not so sure that 1:3 prisoners receiving a custodial sentence is so wrapped in crime they just carry on.
If you are released without support and equipped to fight to find work in a society that shuns you because you committed a crime, then you are far more likely to reoffend.
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Surely working for your board in prison and seeing the fruit of your labour and learning a skill is rehabilitation in its own right?
 
monkeybarry said:
Reoffending rates for adults is 25%
Juveniles 44%
Adults released from custody 38%

I'm not so sure that 1:3 prisoners receiving a custodial sentence is so wrapped in crime they just carry on.
If you are released without support and equipped to fight to find work in a society that shuns you because you committed a crime, then you are far more likely to reoffend.
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Also I was not talking about as a blanket in the first instance but secondly how many juveniles then become repeat offenders?

If you take Juveniles out that equation for the purpose of say they are different incarceration then the % of adult crims who repeat goes up no?

in 2 years the attacks on staff (serious) have doubled also, so prison respect is hardly flying is it
 
Here we go from 2016 stats:

60% of short-sentenced prisoners will reoffend within the same period.” For England and Wales: 46% of adult prisoners were proven to have re-offended within a year of release in the most recent statistics. The figure is 60% for people sentenced to less than a year
 
Grays_1890 said:
Easy, you give them jobs based on what they do and can do, you also reward effort and punish those that don't tow the line. The parallels are that I don't work hard I get sacked and I am a law abiding citizen, criminals parallel would be to have privileges or luxuries revoked.

I am all for human rights but I don't see where human rights come into a case of being made to work for your board regardless if you are a crim
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not an expert by any means but I thought IEPs were already in place in order to get rewards:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/prisoners-use-wages-to-buy-playstations-1-4721535
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think where I was coming from was wages earned go to their keep and housing them rather than out of my pocket.

If they have access to their accounts that should be taken into account to, my dead nan sold her house to pay for her care
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Absolutely. If someone is imprisoned it should be at their cost first
 
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