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30 dead in France terror attacks in Nice + Talk Turkey here!

Didn't read this in reports previously, but apparently someone jumped into the cab of the lorry and wrestled with the driver, could have been even more casualties if this person hadn't taken action.

Read it at the end of an online Independent article, not heard it anywhere else though.
 
AuroRaman said:
Didn't read this in reports previously, but apparently someone jumped into the cab of the lorry and wrestled with the driver, could have been even more casualties if this person hadn't taken action.

Read it at the end of an online Independent article, not heard it anywhere else though.
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BBC News mentioned someone tried to grab onto the door handle in an attempt to stop the driver, but I don't think they said that person got into the cab. Brave either way.
 
The thing is, most of these attacks in Europe seem to be done by citizens of the country attacked. These people pledge allegiance to Isis (and Al Qaeda before them) but they aren't really part of any joined up network, they are just carrying out attacks in the name of a terrorist group. At most, one of the attackers has some tenuous links to someone in the middle east, but they don't even need that. So killing them in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria etc. etc. isn't going to stop French citizens from doing crazy sh1t in France. I don't think there is an easy answer to this, sadly.

It is truly disgusting.
 
the dza said:
The thing is, most of these attacks in Europe seem to be done by citizens of the country attacked. These people pledge allegiance to Isis (and Al Qaeda before them) but they aren't really part of any joined up network, they are just carrying out attacks in the name of a terrorist group. At most, one of the attackers has some tenuous links to someone in the middle east, but they don't even need that. So killing them in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria etc. etc. isn't going to stop French citizens from doing crazy sh1t in France. I don't think there is an easy answer to this, sadly.

It is truly disgusting.
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Exactly. We could do a 'Trump' (spits), build walls and not let another foreign-born person into a country. Wouldn't change anything. These attacks are carried out by native citizens that are radicalised, either by themselves or through a domestic terror network.

Flipside to the above would be 9/11, will be interesting when papers are declassified soon relating to Saudi government involvement to the attack.

Worryingly, Le Pen will now have more traction, and extremists on the other side will be beside themselves trying to blame immigrants/Islam etc.
 
Grays_1890 said:
The press coverage leaves alot to be desired, no need to keep showing videos again and again and interviewing people on site adding to the drama like its a blockbuster is annoying.

Report facts thats it
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This is the world we live in now sadly. Voyeurism, ratings, clickbait etc.
 
AuroRaman said:
I really wish I had an answer to your question mate. The only thing I can think of is that there are so many vile moving parts/political skulduggery in the region where Daesh have a stronghold, there isn't actually much clarity on who is supporting them and opposing them.

Early reports suggest the fudgeer that was driving the lorry wasn't under surveillance or on the watch list for French Intelligence, which suggests he may not have had any actual contact with Daesh/Al Qaeda but had been brainwashed by their message. For me this is more cause for concern thank being fearful of an army of extremists invading a Western nation as they would be wiped out pretty sharpish, probably before they could even get through and cause any damage.
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The fact that he was not affiliated is kind of my point... people are self radicalised because they (ISIS) is allowed to spread their message. They spread their message because they are allowed to breath.

No army of extremists will invade the west. But all you would need is their attacks to bring to power a far right government(s). Who will then target all muslims and create the 'clash of civilsations'. This is Isis's goal. Its better to cut their head off now.
 
monkeybarry said:
Because that is a big part of the reason we got here in the fudgeing first place.

Bombing peace into people is a brick strategy.

If you/your civilisation has been destroyed and your now living somewhere else because of someone else's decision you destroy it, why wouldn't you want to fight and destroy it?

The anger of disenfranchised people in the UK was shown in the referendum - take that and add bombs, friends and family killed, livelihoods destroyed and living somewhere where your beliefs are belittled and vilified.

The way to stop this is to stand together with people of all creeds against the politics that is nothing more self serving for political power and corporate greed.

ISIS etc is a fire - if you cut off its oxygen it will eventually die and smoulder.
Throwing a bucket of water on it after its burned your leg will do little other than gets others wet. And they might just get a bit tinkleed off too.
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I have been against every war in the middle east. As have many many people all over the world... and i believe those wars have (in part at least) fostered Isis. but very few people would be against the west wiping out isis.

To be blunt Iraq and syria are war zones we (they) already distroyed them. It would be better for the people their as well.
 
To beat ISIS and save Syria we would need every major country so South Korea and China as well as the usual suspects to get involved and put time and money into the problem. I was watching a really interesting t.v. programme on this recently. Winning the battle is hard and you lose lifes but it is achievable.

But like with Germany after the second world war we need to have a real plan to develop the country after the battles have finished, so you need to build industry that the country can trade in and help to stop extremists finding a way back into power.

It would take each country to put into billions of pounds and some armed forces and have a 30 year plan, I am not sure the politicians of the day care enough, they just want a quick solution that they can take praise for while they are still in office.
 
Now the truck drivers cousin has come out and said he was not a Muslim because he drank to drugs and ate pork.

It seems to me like with the guy in Orlando, you get these nut cases who feel like a failure in life and then latch on to an extremist movement. I think it has very little infact nothing to with Islam and I am not saying that to be politically correct because that sort of thing does not interest me.

But it shows what one crazy person can do when they are unhinged.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Now the truck drivers cousin has come out and said he was not a Muslim because he drank to drugs and ate pork.

It seems to me like with the guy in Orlando, you get these nut cases who feel like a failure in life and then latch on to an extremist movement. I think it has very little infact nothing to with Islam and I am not saying that to be politically correct because that sort of thing does not interest me.

But it shows what one crazy person can do when they are unhinged.
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I agree, I don't think the thought process is ever, "this is my cause, for this I must kill people" but rather "I want to kill people, what cause can I adopt as an excuse?".
 
monkeybarry said:
Oxygen or fuel - bombing just adds fuel. The analogy is essentially the same.

The initial point was not about retaliation, it was about legitimising their narrative and creating conditions for it to grow and become powerful.
That is what our politicians and corporations have achieved .
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I'll ask another way then.

Do you think that behaving in the manner they wish us to is an acceptable cost of stopping the attacks?

And secondly, do you believe that if Western society had acted in the way you think it should, Godtard fundamentalists wouldn't exist and wouldn't be trying to stop our way of life?
 
galeforce said:
I agree, I don't think the thought process is ever, "this is my cause, for this I must kill people" but rather "I want to kill people, what cause can I adopt as an excuse?".
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I know it is not the same, but after my first marriage failed and I lost a fcuk load of money in that divorce. You know I had these moments when I had moved out in a flat in Brighton and she had the house, I had these thoughts were I could have killed her. But instead I focused on me, and making more money and going out and enjoying myself.

I do wonder if we need to have a like social watchlist of at risk people, it seems a lot from second generation immigrant families can feel a bit alienated and not sure where they belong. I am looking at striking similarities between the guy in Orlando and the guy in Nice. Perhaps we need some sort of at risk watchlist much like the council do in this country with children on sink estates who might be at risk because their parents are Jeremy Kyle wannabes.
 
DTA said:
I have been against every war in the middle east. As have many many people all over the world... and i believe those wars have (in part at least) fostered Isis. but very few people would be against the west wiping out isis.

To be blunt Iraq and syria are war zones we (they) already distroyed them. It would be better for the people their as well.
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Agreed - I wasn't disputing that.
I just don't see bombing as effective - and the last 20 odd years shows that.
 
scaramanga said:
I'll ask another way then.

Do you think that behaving in the manner they wish us to is an acceptable cost of stopping the attacks?

And secondly, do you believe that if Western society had acted in the way you think it should, Godtard fundamentalists wouldn't exist and wouldn't be trying to stop our way of life?
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By one, I assume you mean stop leaving our western ways and turn towards Islam?
Clearly not, and I didn't say it was.

I was saying the opposite, be western (good bits) - be inclusive, welcoming and understanding of people for everything they are (except where that is to cause misery to other by purposeful actions).

Create a society in which we can all prosper relative to our wants and abilities and live harmoniously within the natural limits of us as people.

Second, there will always be nutjobs, often led by religion. But without creating conditions for it to thrive it would have been contained and/or minimised.
 
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monkeybarry said:
By one, I assume you mean stop leaving our western ways and turn towards Islam?
Clearly not, and I didn't say it was.
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I'm glad, but that is all that will stop them - possibly not even that.

monkeybarry said:
I was saying the opposite, be western (good bits) - be inclusive, welcoming and understanding of people for everything they are (except where that is to cause misery to other by purposeful actions).

Create a society in which we can all prosper relative to our wants and abilities and live harmoniously within the natural limits of us as people.
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Barring some exceptions at the extremes (there will always be them) that's pretty much what we have.

monkeybarry said:
Second, there will always be nutjobs, often led by religion. But without creating conditions for it to thrive it would have been contained and/or minimised.
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Only the Godtards can create those conditions and they're the ones that have. Letting evil people do whatever they want just in case some religious fudgewits take offence is not a working model for any society.
 
One thing is for sure, it's things like this that make me glad I don't have Facebook, Twitter etc. Arguing with you lot is one thing, but I can't be doing with people posting horrible sh1t purely for attention. At least this forum is moderated and we have the Spurs connection between us.

I totally agree with those who say that the coverage of these ar5eholes is a big part of the problem. I don't want us to trivialise the deaths of the victims, but I don't want the actions of these horrible people to be so hyped up either. "We're all still going to carry on as normal, you phucking d1ckheads" should be the message we send to them. Their pathetic actions change nothing, all they do is create tragedy for innocent people.

We're one incident likes this, on US soil, away from a Trump presidency imo. And then I have no idea what happens next.
 
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