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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

robp135 said:
The institutions do hold a level of responsibility though. And the people that are part of those institutions have a greater responsibility to speak out against those wrong doings than those outside of it.

That can also be applied to collective communities.
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What I would say is that criticism of institutions such as the Catholic Church, or religious practices more broadly, often carries more weight when it comes from within the community rather than from an outsider.

For example, if Sadiq Khan were to express concerns about women wearing the niqab like he did previously, his comments might carry more credibility with many people than if Keir Starmer made the same point. That's not because the argument itself is necessarily stronger, but because it may be seen as coming from someone with greater cultural or religious understanding and less likely to be motivated by prejudice.
 
robp135 said:
The institutions do hold a level of responsibility though. And the people that are part of those institutions have a greater responsibility to speak out against those wrong doings than those outside of it.

That can also be applied to collective communities.
Click to expand...
What constitutes a collective community?
 
Jurgen the German said:
What I would say is that criticism of institutions such as the Catholic Church, or religious practices more broadly, often carries more weight when it comes from within the community rather than from an outsider.

For example, if Sadiq Khan were to express concerns about women wearing the niqab like he did previously, his comments might carry more credibility with many people than if Keir Starmer made the same point. That's not because the argument itself is necessarily stronger, but because it may be seen as coming from someone with greater cultural or religious understanding and less likely to be motivated by prejudice.
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Ageee 100%
 
Glenda's Legs said:
What constitutes a collective community?
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That would be very broard but in this context of this conversation about grooming gangs the people that attended each particular Mosque, the Pakistani people in each town or bourgh where these crimes took place and all British Pakistanis can be categorized as a collective community of different scales.

That does not make each individual responsible what what happened. Most of course are not. But they do hold a greater responsibility of determine why this type of crime was so prevalent within their community and identify whether there are any cultural reasons that led to it happening and being covered up to such a degree.
 
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robp135 said:
That would be very broard but in this context of this conversation about grooming gangs the people that attended each particular Mosque, the Pakistani people in each town or bourgh where these crimes took place and all British Pakistanis can be categorized as a collective community of different scales.

That does not make each individual responsible what what happened. Most of course are not. But they do hold a greater responsibility of determine why this type of crime was so prevalent within their community and identify whether there are any cultural reasons that led to it happening and being covered up to such a degree.
Click to expand...

You cannot just decide the Pakistani community are a collective monolith and share responsibility across the board. We are millions in the UK. We have different social classes. We have different sects. We have different geographies. We have unique cultures. We are mostly 3rd generation.

So each individual only holds responsibility for the actions of the other millions in your tiny tiny bigtoed and racist little mind Rob.

Every part of the above paragraph is conjecture on your part. And not based on any social science study.

You won't accept this response. It's not for you.

Its for the rest of the forum to reread and understand how stupid you are.

I do not have more responsibility to fight Pakistani nonces more than I have to fight all nonces. If you think that, you are racist. And if people on here other than little r Rob don't agree, ask me and I'll explain why I'm not them.
 
LutonSpurs said:
We have different social classes. We have different sects. We have different geographies. We have unique cultures. We are mostly 3rd generation.
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Outside of men. Which hold most responsibility for the grooming gangs? A particular sect, area of the country, culture, generation of immigrant?
 
robp135 said:
Outside of men. Which hold most responsibility for the grooming gangs? A particular sect, area of the country, culture, generation of immigrant?
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White men who abuse the most children in group settings, per capita. Which you aren't bothered by.

Or those with pics on their PCs. As that skewers the data for the story you want to tell. So you don't want it there

If we exclude every paramater you don't like, we might find a cut of data which tells your story.

It still doesn't amount to collective responsibility.

You are asking questions which have been answered.

The debate here is about collective responsibility. And you demanding collective accountability.

Don't move the goal posts please.

Or do.
 
LutonSpurs said:
White men who abuse the most children in group settings, per capita. Which you aren't bothered by.

Or those with pics on their PCs. As that skewers the data for the story you want to tell. So you don't want it there

If we exclude every paramater you don't like, we might find a cut of data which tells your story.

It still doesn't amount to collective responsibility.

You are asking questions which have been answered.

The debate here is about collective responsibility. And you demanding collective accountability.

Don't move the goal posts please.

Or do.
Click to expand...

Where is the collective responsibility/uproar for the Epstein files and abuse? A grooming gang on a global scale where the only person banged up is a woman?

Who would be responsible for the rape gang who were paid by that womans husbands reported this weekend?
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Where is the collective responsibility/uproar for the Epstein files and abuse? A grooming gang on a global scale where the only person banged up is a woman?

Who would be responsible for the rape gang who were paid by that womans husbands reported this weekend?
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Well, according to Rob, as white men are not a minority you cannot consider it a trend. And he refuses to accept its just a men thing because that includes him. He doesn't like the white men thing as thar includes him.

Rob posts about 30 times a day since he joined. And very little of it makes any sense. He needs to go out and get some air.
 
robp135 said:
The ones that everyone on here at the very least acknowledges over indexed as Pakistani.
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robp135 said:
That would be very broard but in this context of this conversation about grooming gangs the people that attended each particular Mosque, the Pakistani people in each town or bourgh where these crimes took place and all British Pakistanis can be categorized as a collective community of different scales.

That does not make each individual responsible what what happened. Most of course are not. But they do hold a greater responsibility of determine why this type of crime was so prevalent within their community and identify whether there are any cultural reasons that led to it happening and being covered up to such a degree.
Click to expand...

So if there is a rape gang activity in the town where I live, does that make me a part of a collective community that should be obliged to investigate why the community in which I live has produced such abominable people? Even though I have no idea how to go about such a random investigation, have no training or knowledge in that sphere, and frankly don’t feel I should have to investigate why or whether a group of white Essex men are culturally more likely to be involved in rape gangs than other men from other demographics. Or am I excused because being white doesn’t correlate to what you decide is a “collective community”?

Do you honestly believe that grooming of young girls (and likely boys as well) only happens in areas where there is a significant Pakistani population? Or can you admit that it happens nation-wide with all manner of protagonists? (Notwithstanding that there has been a gross dereliction of care and duty in those towns where Pakistani men were the protagonists).
I find it seriously worrying that there is so much focus on a particular number of towns (and of course there are valid reasons why that is a topic of conversation ) but this has the effect of ignoring the grooming that goes on across all races, religions and communities. No one that I have come across rejects the involvement of Pakistani men (of whatever generation) in the northern rape gangs. And no one disputes that there needs to be a full analysis of why it was allowed to happen. . But you seem to want the focus to be on Pakistani men and the Pakistani community (whatever that is) rather then on the fact that there are vulnerable individuals being groomed by all manner of men (and sometimes with the involvement of women, which is beyond my comprensión).

I read a tragic account the other day (wish I had bookmarked it) from a woman who was abused as a young teenager in care. Her abusers were white, male taxi drivers. She acknowledged that young girls were taken to towns like Bradford to be delivered to men (often of Pakistani origin) to be abused and she managed to extricate herself from that. But the point she was making was that the abuse started with these taxi drivers acting in some kind of unison to take advantage of these vulnerable girls. No one links that to ethnicity or religion.
We should never ever ignore that there have been men of Pakistani or regionally similar backgrounds whose victims were disgracefully ignored but these rape networks were and are a lot wider and that should equally be investigated. Your seeming obsession with expecting @LutonSpurs to atone for a whole nationality or as you now frame it, “a community” is plain wrong and is once again targeting his heritage.
 
LutonSpurs said:
White men who abuse the most children in group settings, per capita. Which you aren't bothered by.

Or those with pics on their PCs. As that skewers the data for the story you want to tell. So you don't want it there

If we exclude every paramater you don't like, we might find a cut of data which tells your story.

It still doesn't amount to collective responsibility.

You are asking questions which have been answered.

The debate here is about collective responsibility. And you demanding collective accountability.

Don't move the goal posts please.

Or do.
Click to expand...

You avoided my question and then accuse me of moving the goal posts…
 
Glenda's Legs said:
So if there is a rape gang activity in the town where I live, does that make me a part of a collective community that should be obliged to investigate why the community in which I live has produced such abominable people? Even though I have no idea how to go about such a random investigation, have no training or knowledge in that sphere, and frankly don’t feel I should have to investigate why or whether a group of white Essex men are culturally more likely to be involved in rape gangs than other men from other demographics. Or am I excused because being white doesn’t correlate to what you decide is a “collective community”?

Do you honestly believe that grooming of young girls (and likely boys as well) only happens in areas where there is a significant Pakistani population? Or can you admit that it happens nation-wide with all manner of protagonists? (Notwithstanding that there has been a gross dereliction of care and duty in those towns where Pakistani men were the protagonists).
I find it seriously worrying that there is so much focus on a particular number of towns (and of course there are valid reasons why that is a topic of conversation ) but this has the effect of ignoring the grooming that goes on across all races, religions and communities. No one that I have come across rejects the involvement of Pakistani men (of whatever generation) in the northern rape gangs. And no one disputes that there needs to be a full analysis of why it was allowed to happen. . But you seem to want the focus to be on Pakistani men and the Pakistani community (whatever that is) rather then on the fact that there are vulnerable individuals being groomed by all manner of men (and sometimes with the involvement of women, which is beyond my comprensión).

I read a tragic account the other day (wish I had bookmarked it) from a woman who was abused as a young teenager in care. Her abusers were white, male taxi drivers. She acknowledged that young girls were taken to towns like Bradford to be delivered to men (often of Pakistani origin) to be abused and she managed to extricate herself from that. But the point she was making was that the abuse started with these taxi drivers acting in some kind of unison to take advantage of these vulnerable girls. No one links that to ethnicity or religion.
We should never ever ignore that there have been men of Pakistani or regionally similar backgrounds whose victims were disgracefully ignored but these rape networks were and are a lot wider and that should equally be investigated. Your seeming obsession with expecting @LutonSpurs to atone for a whole nationality or as you now frame it, “a community” is plain wrong and is once again targeting his heritage.
Click to expand...

In most cases, a 2nd generate Muslim Pakistani immigrant in Luton has more in common with a 2nd generation Muslim Pakistani immigrant in Glasgow than they do the white next door neighbor in Luton. There is a shared culture. Hence people will use the term “Pakistani community” or for any other immigrant or even minority racial group but the term “white community” is basically non existent.

If you want to ignore this reality there is not much I can do about it.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Where is the collective responsibility/uproar for the Epstein files and abuse? A grooming gang on a global scale where the only person banged up is a woman?

Who would be responsible for the rape gang who were paid by that womans husbands reported this weekend?
Click to expand...

People are pretty outraged by Epstein. Trump was at a near record low approval rating before the Iran conflict due to it.

And yeh. It’s a collective responsibility of the elites in many circles collectively looked the other way.
 
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