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Another shooting in Murica

Gilzeantoscore said:
Rage bait is a good earner. That is why the Left don't participate in it so much. It also explains why so many previously on the left have become right wing extremists and have continued to spout hate on social media. There are a ton of them and they do it because that is where the money is, not so much on the left.
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Right wing rage bait and the GHod grift.....

.....also great tools if your a sex case

AKA Russell Brand and Co
 
Republicans will be coming out with gems for a little while:

Representative Andrew Clyde, a Georgia Republican, said on Thursday that he supports his colleague Anna Paulina Luna’s call for a statue of Charlie Kirk to be placed in the US Capitol, since, he told a reporter, “we have a statue of MLK in the Capitol, don’t we?”

The Capitol does not, in fact, have a statue of the civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr, but it does have a bust.
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A statue? For a YouTuber?? "Prove me wrong" right up there with "I had a dream..." of course.
 
Lilbaz said:
If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart. If you are old and not conservative you have no brain.
Isn't about people that look like you it's about having something to lose and protecting your family.
Don't blame the us for todays situation in politics. Blame the left for not giving a brick about their own people and wanting to destroy their own culture and borders because of some perceived guilt for things that happened hundreds of years ago.
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Funny that the only people who repeat this mindless line are...right wingers and probably people who have been on the right all their lives!
 
djp82 said:
I would class Kirk as a mouth piece , influencer.

I agree with you on Trump , Vance etc.
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I care more about someone's opinion the more power or influence they have. I think that's reasonable.

Sure, Kirk was an influencer. With a rather massive influence, bigger than most. Again, what would be the left wing equivalent (level of influence and extremist rhetoric)?

But he was also more than that. His organisation was (and is) well funded and well connected to the GOP. He was by all accounts fairly close to Trump and his family. He was at the inauguration, he spoke at national conventions. He at the very least had access to the people with real power, but I think there too he had some influence.

He rose within the right wing movement, he was supported by the GOP in that rise. Despite (or because of?) his extremist rhetoric. I don't see that as much on the left.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Funny that the only people who repeat this mindless line are...right wingers and probably people who have been on the right all their lives!
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I always find some of this stuff a wild cop out too

It others to blame, what? for thinking that Blacks, Gays and Women deserve equality? I mean you can care about your won people and also acknowledge that its not the 1970s anyone and some people deserve a fairer shake.

That isn't just dismissed with lazy comments like "if I see a black pilot or Dr I worry" I mean what ridiculousness is that to suggest that Blacks don't deserve better than they have had it historically.

Utterly bizarre behaviour
 
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Lilbaz said:
Bernie sanders has the same views on gun ownership. Wonder if the headline would be the same if he was shot?
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^Post A
Grays_1890 said:
Sanders has campaigned for strict controls on it though, never saying that deaths were collateral damage for the right to have them........
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^Post B

Kind of sums up so-called debate on this site sometimes for me. Poster says something completely unfounded in truth (post A), whereas verbatim quotes from Kirk showed he lived and died by the very sword of gun control and another poster comes in to counter the misinformation (post B).

But does the initial poster either provide a counterargument with evidence / quotes, or put their hands up and say "Yeah I was actually miles off with that one, apologies on my part for muddying the water with nonsense"? Sanders may have a complicated past in reference to some specific gun laws but hasn't justified gun deaths as worth it in the long run. There's a conversation to be had there..

But instead of either option, they just move on posting more nonsense, your honour I present you post C:

Lilbaz said:
If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart. If you are old and not conservative you have no brain.
Isn't about people that look like you it's about having something to lose and protecting your family.
Don't blame the us for todays situation in politics. Blame the left for not giving a brick about their own people and wanting to destroy their own culture and borders because of some perceived guilt for things that happened hundreds of years ago.
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Where do you even start with that? But more importantly, what's the point if there's no discussion? What exactly is the left's culture that we want to destroy and who don't we care about?

The left wing when young and right wing if you get successful is something selfish people say to justify prioritising themselves, I I get it because life is tough; but you can still actually be a compassionate person later on in life. Instead it's easier to belittle youngsters who have the audacity of hoping for a caring society which has done away with pointless suffering.
 
Lilbaz said:
If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart. If you are old and not conservative you have no brain.
Isn't about people that look like you it's about having something to lose and protecting your family.
Don't blame the us for todays situation in politics. Blame the left for not giving a brick about their own people and wanting to destroy their own culture and borders because of some perceived guilt for things that happened hundreds of years ago.
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As a perspective if talking about strategy I think looking at the left makes sense. But the responsibility for what happens on the right is on the right. I thought the right was about personal responsibility and all that, they don't get to blame the left for their actions.

Your claims about the left are frankly ridiculous. And an example of extreme rhetoric imo. I'm guessing you don't see it as extreme?

This is the kind of stuff the right, including Kirk, has normalised.

This is how the billionaires and authocrats win. Get people believing that the left is an existential threat so they can keep gaining wealth and power, screwing over the little guy in the process while ruining the environment. Getting you to believe this kind of stuff about the left is literally a part of their strategy, and it's working. Then get you blaming the left for their actions too.

I'll give it to the right, it's an effective strategy.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Right wing extremist rage bait is a good earner. It also explains why so many previously on the left have become right wing extremists and have continued to spout hate on social media. There are a ton of them and they do it because that is where the money is, not so much on the left.
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Owen Jones is an example of it on the left in this country - but agreed that it’s not so prevalent.

Here, by the way, are some comments from the alleged ‘gentleman of debate’, helpfully rounded up by The Guardian;

www.theguardian.com

Charlie Kirk in his own words: ‘prowling Blacks’ and ‘the great replacement strategy’

The far-right commentator didn’t pull his punches when discussing his bigoted views on current events
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Lilbaz said:
If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart. If you are old and not conservative you have no brain.
Isn't about people that look like you it's about having something to lose and protecting your family.
Don't blame the us for todays situation in politics. Blame the left for not giving a brick about their own people and wanting to destroy their own culture and borders because of some perceived guilt for things that happened hundreds of years ago.
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I think most people sit in what known as the sensible centre & lean left & right depending on the topic myself included

Genuine question what are you losing & what do you want to protect your family from.
who on the left does not care about their own people & why would they want to destroy their own culture.

i don't think anyone wants you to feel guilty about what happened hundreds of years ago they want acknowledgement for the things we did & we did some fudged up brick. Is that really to much to ask
 
spurspinter1 said:
^Post A

^Post B

Kind of sums up so-called debate on this site sometimes for me. Poster says something completely unfounded in truth (post A), whereas verbatim quotes from Kirk showed he lived and died by the very sword of gun control and another poster comes in to counter the misinformation (post B).

But does the initial poster either provide a counterargument with evidence / quotes, or put their hands up and say "Yeah I was actually miles off with that one, apologies on my part for muddying the water with nonsense"? Sanders may have a complicated past in reference to some specific gun laws but hasn't justified gun deaths as worth it in the long run. There's a conversation to be had there..

But instead of either option, they just move on posting more nonsense, your honour I present you post C:



Where do you even start with that? But more importantly, what's the point if there's no discussion? What exactly is the left's culture that we want to destroy and who don't we care about?

The left wing when young and right wing if you get successful is something selfish people say to justify prioritising themselves, I I get it because life is tough; but you can still actually be a compassionate person later on in life. Instead it's easier to belittle youngsters who have the audacity of hoping for a caring society which has done away with pointless suffering.
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Most are not looking to debate, they are looking to belittle.
If you don't agree with me you are wrong is not a debate and that appears to be the standard of debate these days.
 
Unfortunately, this ain't fuc king far from the truth!
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braineclipse said:
As a perspective if talking about strategy I think looking at the left makes sense. But the responsibility for what happens on the right is on the right. I thought the right was about personal responsibility and all that, they don't get to blame the left for their actions.

Your claims about the left are frankly ridiculous. And an example of extreme rhetoric imo. I'm guessing you don't see it as extreme?

This is the kind of stuff the right, including Kirk, has normalised.

This is how the billionaires and authocrats win. Get people believing that the left is an existential threat so they can keep gaining wealth and power, screwing over the little guy in the process while ruining the environment. Getting you to believe this kind of stuff about the left is literally a part of their strategy, and it's working. Then get you blaming the left for their actions too.

I'll give it to the right, it's an effective strategy.
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There is barely a left, certainly not a radical one.
 
The left is suffering because the right have the money and control the narrative. The poor people are going right win because they've been convinced they are unhappy because of people coming on boats. That only black and brown men are a threat in this country. That the lack of investment in their communities is due to Abdul having a take away. That when people speak a different language they are at core destroying England.

It's all nonsense but it's hard for the left to fight the whole media apparatus.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The left is suffering because the right have the money and control the narrative. The poor people are going right win because they've been convinced they are unhappy because of people coming on boats. That only black and brown men are a threat in this country. That the lack of investment in their communities is due to Abdul having a take away. That when people speak a different language they are at core destroying England.

It's all nonsense but it's hard for the left to fight the whole media apparatus.
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The centre are in a much better position to fight it, but they just seem to pander to it.
 
Bullet said:
I'm surprised so many of you hadn't heard of Kirk.
His presence is absolutely MASSIVE among Gen Z as he targets a lot of his work their way via TikTok and X and colleges. Millions of views.

He massively aligns himself with Trump and campaigned for him to boost the youth vote.
He pretends to be polite and open to debate, but was a really nasty piece of work, in my opinion.

His influence was growing and he was a very dangerous guy, very persuasive to some ears.
Just read his wikipedia or google some of his 'highlights'.

About one hundred and fifty thousand people die each day, on earth.
Most were better people than Charlie Kirk.
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It's probably because many of us don't do X or Tik Tok.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The left is suffering because the right have the money and control the narrative. The poor people are going right win because they've been convinced they are unhappy because of people coming on boats. That only black and brown men are a threat in this country. That the lack of investment in their communities is due to Abdul having a take away. That when people speak a different language they are at core destroying England.

It's all nonsense but it's hard for the left to fight the whole media apparatus.
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This is what the right is great at. Not governing for the masses but controlling the message. They own the megaphone.
The right, in the US in particular, has been playing the long game and at this juncture can manufacture a reality at will and saturate the media landscape with whatever pathetic grievance they've decided to come up with. It is rather impressive in a way and unfortunately there is nothing comparable on the left to counteract this.
 
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Lilbaz said:
If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart. If you are old and not conservative you have no brain.
Isn't about people that look like you it's about having something to lose and protecting your family.
Don't blame the us for todays situation in politics. Blame the left for not giving a brick about their own people and wanting to destroy their own culture and borders because of some perceived guilt for things that happened hundreds of years ago.
Click to expand...
Then what about us that are old, conservative AND pro gun?

Still, I pride myself in being able to see things from both/multiple sides and that others may not be in the same situation I am. And I am willing to discuss anything as long as we share the same reality. I could even discuss whether pedophiles and rapists should be allowed to form their own organizations, just like neo-nazis, environmental terrorists and Arsenal. Because they exist, they are real. No matter what you do. And we have to co-exist, one way or another. I will not however, discuss things that requires the earth to be flat to make sense. The left not giving a brick about "their own people" and wanting to destroy "culture", and the senator that claimed that Democrats had never been violently targeted politically, falls into the flat-earth category.

And I blame the US for not being the good example they pretend to be, nay, that they hammer into our heads that they are, as the most influential country in the world. I expect, wrongly perhaps, more from a general than a private. They're a damn circus, and not an enjoyable one at that.
 
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