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ENIC

Grays_1890 said:
There is also not Thousands of Rodri level either, let alone those mentioned on here. Which is part of my point.

Anyway like yiu say....Enic.
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I do have to be fair guys in saying maybe I spoke out of turn about finding football completely "boring" because I do myself getting on with next season regardless....


But I do definently still feel as a kid you had Robbie Fowler and Anelka playing for City. Not modern day City but standard "about as good as Everton today Emirates Marketing Project". You also had the fun of Jay Jay Okcoha going to Bolton to play under fat Sam.

No way anyone can compare Fowler or Anelka to any modern day mid table Prem player. Let alone compare him to the joys of JJ Ochoca for Bolton
 
Bishop said:
We have no great players as it stands. Ginola had gaps to his game for sure, but realistically right now in this side at least in the attacking aspect who competes with him? I don't see anyone close tbh now that Son has declined.
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Son and Kulu both significantly better than Ginola. Johnson certainly far more effective. Ginola didn't play to team instructions and didn't defend his opposite number. He went on some lovely mazy dribbles and scored a few worldies. I loved watching him. However, the top teams didn't want him because he wasn't actually particularly effective. He played 100 PL games for Spurs and scored only 13 goals. His overall PL record was 195 games played, 22 goals scored. A goal every 8.5 games, for a player that did no defending at all.

By contrast, Johnson (again Ole Ole) - a player that you really don't rate at all - has scored 16 goals in 65 games for Spurs - a rate of 1 in 4 and has an overall PL record of 40 goals in 146 games - a goal every 3.65 games. That from a player who does play to team orders and also defends against his opposite number.

I think you were blinded by some great dribbling and a few worldies mate.
 
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Craig_J said:
I do have to be fair guys in saying maybe I spoke out of turn about finding football completely "boring" because I do myself getting on with next season regardless....


But I do definently still feel as a kid you had Robbie Fowler and Anelka playing for City. Not modern day City but standard "about as good as Everton today Emirates Marketing Project". You also had the fun of Jay Jay Okcoha going to Bolton to play under fat Sam.

No way anyone can compare Fowler or Anelka to any modern day mid table Prem player. Let alone compare him to the joys of JJ Ochoca for Bolton
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I don't think you spoke out of turn at all. What I find most interesting is that so many of our experiences of football nowadays is about all of the wrappers. The socials, the different TV and radio shows and all the razzmatazz surrounding the match itself. Even the implementation of VAR was another huge distraction from the actual game of football.

What you shone a light on was the actual 90 mins itself. I think it is fair to say that the actual 90 min entertainment has diminished considerably over the years. It's definitely how I feel.
 
Muttley said:
I don't think you spoke out of turn at all. What I find most interesting is that so many of our experiences of football nowadays is about all of the wrappers. The socials, the different TV and radio shows and all the razzmatazz surrounding the match itself. Even the implementation of VAR was another huge distraction from the actual game of football.

What you shone a light on was the actual 90 mins itself. I think it is fair to say that the actual 90 min entertainment has diminished considerably over the years. It's definitely how I feel.
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I think there could be a correlation though.

One can spend so much time on all the 'wrappers', and not discounting how addictive and emotional button pressing some of those wrappers can be, it wouldn't surprise me if there is a level of exhaustion, overload and importance shifting among football fans.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Son and Kulu both significantly better than Ginola. Johnson certainly far more effective. Ginola didn't play to team instructions and didn't defend his opposite number. He went on some lovely mazy dribbles and scored a few worldies. I loved watching him. However, the top teams didn't want him because he wasn't actually particularly effective. He played 100 PL games for Spurs and scored only 13 goals. His overall PL record was 195 games played, 22 goals scored. A goal every 8.5 games, for a player that did no defending at all.

By contrast, Johnson (again Ole Ole) - a player that you really don't rate at all - has scored 16 goals in 65 games for Spurs - a rate of 1 in 4 and has an overall PL record of 40 goals in 146 games - a goal every 3.65 games. That from a player who does play to team orders and also defends against his opposite number.

I think you were blinded by some great dribbling and a few worldies mate.
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We are going to have to agree to disagree because I don't rate players on statistical returns, stats are useful but they often lack context. Johnson's stats look decent but he contributed nothing outside of finishing a particular type of chance to the team s overall hindrance, he's a poor footballer and someone whom if we tried to sell none of the top 6 teams would even consider him, I'd be surprised tbh if even a top 8 would consider dropping 60m on him. With regards to his stats Luis Figo never had a single season goal scoring wise that matched Johnson last season yet I know which player I would take all day and every single day. Would you also take Johnson over him due to his better goals record? 🤣

With Ginola talking about his goal numbers in comparison to today is a little disingenuous. He played as a winger in the days when they were expected to create far more than to score. With his skillset, in today's game he would play as a LWF and be rather effective I think. You can rate Johnson if you wish, but I just value overall contribution, effectiveness and participation more than simply finishing off a chance. 🤷🏿‍♂️
 
Bishop said:
We are going to have to agree to disagree because I don't rate players on statistical returns, stats are useful but they often lack context. Johnson's stats look decent but he contributed nothing outside of finishing a particular type of chance to the team s overall hindrance, he's a poor footballer and someone whom if we tried to sell none of the top 6 teams would even consider him, I'd be surprised tbh if even a top 8 would consider dropping 60m on him. With regards to his stats Luis Figo never had a single season goal scoring wise that matched Johnson last season yet I know which player I would take all day and every single day. Would you also take Johnson over him due to his better goals record? 🤣

With Ginola talking about his goal numbers in comparison to today is a little disingenuous. He played as a winger in the days when they were expected to create far more than to score. With his skillset, in today's game he would play as a LWF and be rather effective I think. You can rate Johnson if you wish, but I just value overall contribution, effectiveness and participation more than simply finishing off a chance. 🤷🏿‍♂️
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I'm kind of conflicted, as I agree with both of you. But Ginola was the shining light during a terrible period, and let's not forget he was voted Premier League Player of the Year by the players - that is quite some feat for anyone, but playing in a team as rubbish as ours doubly so.

Also regardless of goals, I remember countless times he would skin a couple of players out wide and whip in a delicious ball only for it not to be converted - and unfortunately we didn't have stats such as 'big chances created' floating around in those days.....
 
harr1984 said:
I'm kind of conflicted, as I agree with both of you. But Ginola was the shining light during a terrible period, and let's not forget he was voted Premier League Player of the Year by the players - that is quite some feat for anyone, but playing in a team as rubbish as ours doubly so.

Also regardless of goals, I remember countless times he would skin a couple of players out wide and whip in a delicious ball only for it not to be converted - and unfortunately we didn't have stats such as 'big chances created' floating around in those days.....
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He got both didn't he? The writers player of the season aswell.
 
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