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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 63 34.8%

  • Out

    Votes: 118 65.2%
  • Total voters
    181
Jurgen the German said:
People have been pointing to injuries all season even though they tend to follow Ange. And some have argued it’s not the system that has contributed to our appalling defensive record. It’s purely a lack of leadership and mistakes from players, not the system.
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Ange will also come up with a new narrative every week. He has a black book of narratives to avoid the tough questions. Clever man.
 
Why are our players making so many mistakes? My guess would be that they are playing in positions or roles which they do not feel comfortable with and do not suit them.

A manager should come in, identify the best players to fit the tactic that they employ but then be happy to adjust it so that it suits the players that are being used. To not do so will fail consistently to get the best out of the players at the manager’s disposal.
 
El Dante said:
It’s that we have seen this again and again and again and nothing changes and we have arguably the worst manager in our history who seems to be bullet proof. How is he kept this long when Pochettino took us to the CL Final and was gone within months of the next season?!

What is so special about Postecoglou that we abandoned all reason and seemingly gave him the keys to the club?!

He needs to go now!
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I think Ange has benefited from the recent history with our coaches. He is in because we still have a chance of a trophy (following criticism of Mourinho being dismissed before a final), because we have dismissed several after a short tenure (esp. Nuno) and because of the first 10 games.

His dismissal after the end of the season, whether or not we win the EL, allows the decision makers to be insulated from the prior criticism. Of course, it does not prevent criticism based on the fact that the selection of Ange was clearly an error. Not much justification for giving the wrong guy ample time to take us in the wrong direction. It is just going to take us longer to turn things around.
 
thfcsteff said:
I don't disagree that stylistically he might've been, however I do think that in the thick of it Jan/Feb, he might've been a senior who could've influenced a greater degree of adaptation within the coaching staff and maybe had a steadying influence on the dressing room. I might well be allowing my Eric appreciation to step over a boundary with such pointless assumptions, we'll never know. In truth, I think if PEH had been retained for one more season (he clearly was not interested in Angeball) he'd have had a similar effect. I wonder if when Ange talks about doing things differently in the summer, he rues how both were allowed to leave/drift? I thinkmPEH was unavoidable (in fairness I was not against it). Dier? It was poor.
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Sorry Steph there is no positive question that PEH was the answer to. His use of the ball, switching off at crucial times and and not covering back actually showed us what ange defending looked like before ange got here.
Dier as the shielding dm that Poch wanted him to be yes, definitely could have made a big difference, just typical spurs that dier didn't want to play that position and even if he did ange wouldn't have played him anyway.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
We did. But Danso was playing better. It's like with Poch...he played Mason and Bentaleb in midfield over Dembele and Paulinho etc. Better players? No, but, was their application, professionalism and hunger superior? Yes. It was a point. Match them in those aspects and you'll get back in. Dembele did. Others were shipped out.
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Romero will show up in the EL. I don't want to evaluate Danso's performance too much as it is unfair given the changes around him. But when both are playing well, Romero is a superior footballer, and it is why we will demand big money to sell him.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry how have I proven your point mate? Yes I stand by that view Dier had become one of the players from the Poch era that had been underperforming for a number of years and needed to go. And I wouldn’t have blamed him if he didn’t want to hang around and warm the bench at his age.
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You sorely underestimate him. In fact, given all the harping on around here about systems, it is clear that his biggest crime was not being suited to Ange's high-line. Under Conte, I'd argue he was a major reason we made the CL with that spring run we had...his 'decline' has been greatly over-egged IMO.
 
glasgowspur said:
Sorry Steph there is no positive question that PEH was the answer to. His use of the ball, switching off at crucial times and and not covering back actually showed us what ange defending looked like before ange got here.
Dier as the shielding dm that Poch wanted him to be yes, definitely could have made a big difference, just typical spurs that dier didn't want to play that position and even if he did ange wouldn't have played him anyway.
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I'd agree with that, and say he did also know how to close down some tight games with simple, brute 'professionalism'. I stand as someone who wanted him moved on, however he had the experience we have lacked in many of our one goal defeats this season. The fact he patently wanted no part of the Ange set-up is probably the main factor.
 
Robspur12 said:
I know I sound like a broken record mate, but I still maintain he needed to play his first choice 11 in the league and rotate them in and out. He has lots of options. He did not need to field "weakened teams."

The bigger picture if he gave a brick, was for him to show we could be a well drilled team with our first 11 in place ready for next season

It's a litany of excuses that seem to be made for this guy. 19 losses, a 50% loss rate over the season. Loss basically to anyone competent and he has normalized losing.

Ange may win a weak Europa League (although I'm still not convinced he will as there is still a reasonably competent side in Bilbao), but based on the league form, it would be a huge gamble to keep him on as manager. He hasn't given us a chance to see that his system can work.
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I don't believe -at this point- there is a single person who believes he will/should be here whether we somehow win the Europa League or not.

I'd counter that there are no excuses (we agree on that!) however there are reasons, and to only see one set of reasons - from any angle - is to remain partially blind to what is a club-wide issue and has been for too long with regards to under-achievement.
 
NYSpur said:
I think Ange has benefited from the recent history with our coaches. He is in because we still have a chance of a trophy (following criticism of Mourinho being dismissed before a final), because we have dismissed several after a short tenure (esp. Nuno) and because of the first 10 games.

His dismissal after the end of the season, whether or not we win the EL, allows the decision makers to be insulated from the prior criticism. Of course, it does not prevent criticism based on the fact that the selection of Ange was clearly an error. Not much justification for giving the wrong guy ample time to take us in the wrong direction. It is just going to take us longer to turn things around.
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...is the answer I believe stands as most likely...
 
thfcsteff said:
I don't believe -at this point- there is a single person who believes he will/should be here whether we somehow win the Europa League or not.

I'd counter that there are no excuses (we agree on that!) however there are reasons, and to only see one set of reasons - from any angle - is to remain partially blind to what is a club-wide issue and has been for too long with regards to under-achievement.
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Look, in terms of the "club-wide" issue, it boils down to the fact that financially we bobble around 5th-6th place in terms of power and fundamentally that means we will bobble around 5th - 6th place in the league and maybe have a decent shot of a trophy every 5 to 6 years. We've punched above our weight league wise a few seasons and we've had our chances in cups over the years too. We've won a single league cup under the current ownership but lost several finals and semi finals.

The current ownership period has seen English football dominated by Fergie's Utd and Wenger's Arsenal, then Abramovich's Chelsea and finally Emirates Marketing Project and Klopp's Liverpool. Trophies have generally been horded by those clubs with only the odd alternative winner. We are basically the next club down from those, top of "tier 2". In that context, there isn't really any impenetrable malaise over the club. It is simply the reality of where we are.
 
thfcsteff said:
You sorely underestimate him. In fact, given all the harping on around here about systems, it is clear that his biggest crime was not being suited to Ange's high-line. Under Conte, I'd argue he was a major reason we made the CL with that spring run we had...his 'decline' has been greatly over-egged IMO.
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He didn't decline, Dier was never a great CB in the first place. Him becoming our starting CB was evidence of the settling for lower standards and the subsequent gradual decline in ability and quality that took the club over.

I can't think you really wanted to see him playing in the suicidal high line? He would have made so many defensive mistakes even you would have wanted him out. 😆
 
Not long now, and he can fuсk off back to some nothing league somewhere with no real competition and most of the best players in his team. That's his level.

Just get out of this club, you useless fuсking snake-oil salesman.
 
tommysvr said:
I will never understand this level of vitriol. Do you think he's deliberately done this or something
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Depends on where you draw the line at deliberate tbh.
Is he deliberately going out to lose ( apart from Emirates Marketing Project, of course,because he was told to :)), probably not.

Is he deliberately burying his head in the sand despite mounting evidence that his methods don’t work, I would say that’s a distinct possibility.

There is also the case that he is unable to do anything about it because he simply isn’t good enough, which I think is where the truth lies.

I think perhaps the negative reaction to Ange is simply because he isn’t a very likeable bloke and doesn’t come across as a great representation for our club.

Much like Mourinho and Conte, he’s in it to promote his own brand in many ways. The fact he seems to have a far higher view of his coaching ability than nearly everyone else and the way he promotes that probably explains why he is such a polarising character
 
I can honestly say we would have a better chance of beating Bodo with even Mason in charge, or maybe the groundsman.
Firstly bin this playing out from the keeper crap. We dont have good enough players and every opponent knows it. Just pinch it off us and we will concede goals.
Tighten up the defense first and foremost.
Gakpo was surrounded by 7 of our players but still scored.
Udogies pathetic attempt at defending against Salah for that goal. All just schoolboy half arsed defending.
Sack the fraud now please.
 
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