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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

UEFA squad list - https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/clubs/1652--tottenham/squad/

Venom - inj
Forster - if fit again
Austin - yes
Whiteman - yes
Gunter - perhaps

Dragu - yes
Udogie - no
Romero - no
Porro - yes
Davies - yes
VDV - no
Dorrington - no, now on loan
Cassanova - perhaps
King - perhaps
Hardy - yes

Biss - unlikely
Madds - yes
Gray - yes
Bergval - yes
Kulu - yes
Johnson - no
Odobert - no
Sarr - yes
Bentancur - yes
Moore - yes
Hall - perhaps
Olusesi - yes

Son - yes
Richi - yes
Werner - no
Solanke - no
Lankshear - yes
Ajayi - perhaps
Williams-Barnett - perhaps

Obviously no Kinsky, Spence or Reggie registered. Scarlett may have been added to List B, but not updated on the UEFA site yet.

So we only have 17 definite yes's, so the 6 other kids will inevitably travel. I think Forster will be back, perhaps Biss.

Ange really is operating with a hand tied behind his back in this competition.

Edit: corrected Solanke (thx ricky2tricky4city)
 
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Muttley said:
UEFA squad list - https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/clubs/1652--tottenham/squad/

Venom - inj
Forster - if fit again
Austin - yes
Whiteman - yes
Gunter - perhaps

Dragu - yes
Udogie - no
Romero - no
Porro - yes
Davies - yes
VDV - no
Dorrington - no, now on loan
Cassanova - perhaps
King - perhaps
Hardy - yes

Biss - unlikely
Madds - yes
Gray - yes
Bergval - yes
Kulu - yes
Johnson - no
Odobert - no
Sarr - yes
Bentancur - yes
Moore - yes
Hall - perhaps
Olusesi - yes

Son - yes
Richi - yes
Werner - no
Solanke - yes
Lankshear - yes
Ajayi - perhaps
Williams-Barnett - perhaps

Obviously no Kinsky, Spence or Reggie registered. Scarlett may have been added to List B, but not updated on the UEFA site yet.

So we only have 18 definite yes's, so the 6 other kids will inevitably travel. I think Forster will be back, perhaps Biss.

Ange really is operating with a hand tied behind his back in this competition.
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Solanke? ...a yes?
Biss might have a small hamstring issue.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I'm not convinced there are any player leaks here. Without a name/names it is all too easy for a journalist to just make that story up and post it as gospel.
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I think the name is in there. Plainly. My hunch? It's the one that isn't spelt s-o-n. I think 'most' of the players are onside and committed to trying to dig out of this despite their fatigue, etc. But as with pretty much every group, there's always one or two...again, I accept this is speculative on my part and I'll happily accept ridicule if doled out. As I usually say on these matters, here's hoping I am wrong.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
The ones he's flogging when the sports scientists are recommending they need a rehab day?

Anyone now still think Gerry Francis' Terror Tuesdays were a good idea? It's just so character building to make the squad run until the first one pukes!
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Where are you hearing that? What's your source?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
And even that is to quell the external noise (not that it would)...if you asked Ange whether he needed it...he'd laugh.
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Perhaps.
But perhaps there's another side of this. He's spent the last three months roughly sliding into a crisis, and I'm sure he isn't sleeping well or in the greatest health via stress and hours. No family around him, so flying solo. And a bit of a loner. Of course, some of this is his choice and his character, nonetheless I think he is probably close to burnout too, thus maybe any support would be welcome?
 
thfcsteff said:
I have to say, despite us disagreeing on the route, I think we're both ending up in the proverbial 'Saudi Sportswashing Machine' if you will (i.e. the destination seems increasingly inevitable whatever the methods or reasons. If he sacks him, does he also sack the people who brought him here and find replacements for them too?
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From what I can understand Ange was about 8th on the list when we got him, so Levy can't really blame anyone. There will shortly be a point when he has to get rid of him, and because of the trouble we now see ourselves in just leaving Mason to take over would be extremely difficult. This is the worst situation I can remember for a long time!
 
glasgowspur said:
I've lifted this bit Steff,
Could it be that by sticking with ange in circumstances that the club have helped to create we are sending a message to the next prospective manager.
We've needed a rebuild since our season at Wembley, not everyone is admitting but everybody knows it.
Except for the odd highlight here and there we've been in a slide since then.
That's on the club, as is our transfer policy.
When DL hired ange the message was that that had to stop, we had to return to our DNA and be patient in doing so.
Sacking a manager 18 months into a project isn't being patient, it's not going to encourage the next manager to sign on the line.
Just like nuno I'm not convinced ange was first choice, did we come to the conclusion that actions are going to speak louder than words.
Whoever we brought in had to be seen to be given every chance.
That statement becomes empty words.
If we wait to the end of season and part ways "in mutual agreement" it's a much better optic.
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We have had a rebuild since being at Wembley, we only have a few players that are still with us from that time. The problem is that we have bought badly, and we have a manager who can't arrange a p155up in a brewery, let alone a football team
 
veryoldspur said:
From what I can understand Ange was about 8th on the list when we got him, so Levy can't really blame anyone. There will shortly be a point when he has to get rid of him, and because of the trouble we now see ourselves in just leaving Mason to take over would be extremely difficult. This is the worst situation I can remember for a long time!
Click to expand...

I agree, it is a very poor situation. The last time I remember one which felt this miserable was that badger/Gross era. That was tough. Funnily enough, under Gross we had young Espen Baardsen putting in some incredible performances as a young Norwegian keeper to help keep us up. Right now we have Kinsky as a young Czech keeper looking good and also baring an uncanny resemblance to Baardsen. Silver lining? We'll be safe in the end LOL!!!!!
 
veryoldspur said:
From what I can understand Ange was about 8th on the list when we got him, so Levy can't really blame anyone. There will shortly be a point when he has to get rid of him, and because of the trouble we now see ourselves in just leaving Mason to take over would be extremely difficult. This is the worst situation I can remember for a long time!
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Where did we get this copy of the official list from? Seeing how quickly he was moved in, approach happening before the season ended we did well getting rejected by the other 7 so quickly.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think the name is in there. Plainly. My hunch? It's the one that isn't spelt s-o-n. I think 'most' of the players are onside and committed to trying to dig out of this despite their fatigue, etc. But as with pretty much every group, there's always one or two...again, I accept this is speculative on my part and I'll happily accept ridicule if doled out. As I usually say on these matters, here's hoping I am wrong.
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We're in a crisis situation. No one likes that. Sooner or later players will start pointing fingers and some will blame the manager. If this "leak" is real or not it's only a matter of time.

On the pitch I think the players have given everything they can, as long as that's the case I'm not too concerned about such "leaks". First half against Everton looked like a "downing tools" moment, but think it was the tactics and they imo showed in the second half that they haven't.

Like the club (Levy/Lange/Munn) I think the players have shown a lot of belief and conviction with Ange so far. More than we've seen with any manager I can remember. The only way to not have those fingers pointed at Ange at some point is to stop the run of poor results on the pitch (or if he gets sacked before that).

If there is one or two bad apples in there that's something to sort out. With or without Ange.
thfcsteff said:
I agree, it is a very poor situation. The last time I remember one which felt this miserable was that badger/Gross era. That was tough. Funnily enough, under Gross we had young Espen Baardsen putting in some incredible performances as a young Norwegian keeper to help keep us up. Right now we have Kinsky as a young Czech keeper looking good and also baring an uncanny resemblance to Baardsen. Silver lining? We'll be safe in the end LOL!!!!!
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It's a crisis.

I may now be trying to paint a silver lining where it isn't really there. But I really do believe this...

I think we're in the best and strongest position for the future we've been in since the CL final, and arguably before that. There are still shortcomings in the squad, but nothing like the current injury crisis makes it seem. We have a significant number of early to mid twenties players who are already really good, a couple of them at least imo fantastic players. We have the best and most talented group of teenagers to early twenties talents we've ever seen at the club. With several of them already performing well at a PL level. We have a recruitment setup that seems capable both of signing excellent young talents and players for here and now that fit in. And unlike in the past we have spending power to go with that.

With or without Ange. However this current crisis ends (apart from relegation, that would be horrendous). This is the recipe for success imo. This is imo nothing like the late stage Conte chaos. Nothing like the late stage Mourinho malaise. Nothing like the Gross grimness.
 
braineclipse said:
We're in a crisis situation. No one likes that. Sooner or later players will start pointing fingers and some will blame the manager. If this "leak" is real or not it's only a matter of time.

On the pitch I think the players have given everything they can, as long as that's the case I'm not too concerned about such "leaks". First half against Everton looked like a "downing tools" moment, but think it was the tactics and they imo showed in the second half that they haven't.

Like the club (Levy/Lange/Munn) I think the players have shown a lot of belief and conviction with Ange so far. More than we've seen with any manager I can remember. The only way to not have those fingers pointed at Ange at some point is to stop the run of poor results on the pitch (or if he gets sacked before that).

If there is one or two bad apples in there that's something to sort out. With or without Ange.

It's a crisis.

I may now be trying to paint a silver lining where it isn't really there. But I really do believe this...

I think we're in the best and strongest position for the future we've been in since the CL final, and arguably before that. There are still shortcomings in the squad, but nothing like the current injury crisis makes it seem. We have a significant number of early to mid twenties players who are already really good, a couple of them at least imo fantastic players. We have the best and most talented group of teenagers to early twenties talents we've ever seen at the club. With several of them already performing well at a PL level. We have a recruitment setup that seems capable both of signing excellent young talents and players for here and now that fit in. And unlike in the past we have spending power to go with that.

With or without Ange. However this current crisis ends (apart from relegation, that would be horrendous). This is the recipe for success imo. This is imo nothing like the late stage Conte chaos. Nothing like the late stage Mourinho malaise. Nothing like the Gross grimness.
Click to expand...

I like the outlook.
I agree on the one or two bad apples. My bad apple needs to fudge off this summer if we can shift him. Pound for pound, his lack of conviction versus his 'aura' when it's all rosy is absolutely appalling IMO. I am also aware that on the rare occasions I do get stuck on a player negatively, I can be a bit OTT, but in this case, it is the promise of what could be versus what actually is which is doing my melon in.
 
veryoldspur said:
From what I can understand Ange was about 8th on the list when we got him, so Levy can't really blame anyone. There will shortly be a point when he has to get rid of him, and because of the trouble we now see ourselves in just leaving Mason to take over would be extremely difficult. This is the worst situation I can remember for a long time!
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Who are the other 7?

Scott Munn was appointed before Ange and had a role in bringing him to the club.
 
thfcsteff said:
I like the outlook.
I agree on the one or two bad apples. My bad apple needs to fudge off this summer if we can shift him. Pound for pound, his lack of conviction versus his 'aura' when it's all rosy is absolutely appalling IMO. I am also aware that on the rare occasions I do get stuck on a player negatively, I can be a bit OTT, but in this case, it is the promise of what could be versus what actually is which is doing my melon in.
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We have two (main) players that are inconsistent (ranging from 3/10 to 9/10 performances). Regardless of their attitude, I just don't think within an Ange system you can support a player (or two) who might have an off day (especially when you really have no clue when that off day may be).

I have no malice towards the player you suggest as he's a lovely lad. A slight problem is the boss loves him...I'd hope that Anges obvious romance for the game doesn't blinker him from what's what and what's needed.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
We have two (main) players that are inconsistent (ranging from 3/10 to 9/10 performances). Regardless of their attitude, I just don't think within an Ange system you can support a player (or two) who might have an off day (especially when you really have no clue when that off day may be).

I have no malice towards the player you suggest as he's a lovely lad. A slight problem is the boss loves him...I'd hope that Anges obvious romance for the game doesn't blinker him from what's what and what's needed.
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I think an Ange system can deal with a player having an off day.

But no system can deal with too much responsibility for creativity and ball progression being heaped on one player and that player having an off day.

We actually have players in the squad that could take some of that ball progression and creativity responsibility. Both on good and bad days for Maddison. But they've been injured and exhausted for months now.
 
thfcsteff said:
Perhaps.
But perhaps there's another side of this. He's spent the last three months roughly sliding into a crisis, and I'm sure he isn't sleeping well or in the greatest health via stress and hours. No family around him, so flying solo. And a bit of a loner. Of course, some of this is his choice and his character, nonetheless I think he is probably close to burnout too, thus maybe any support would be welcome?
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That’s becoming a trend for Tottenham managers!
 
thfcsteff said:
Perhaps.
But perhaps there's another side of this. He's spent the last three months roughly sliding into a crisis, and I'm sure he isn't sleeping well or in the greatest health via stress and hours. No family around him, so flying solo. And a bit of a loner. Of course, some of this is his choice and his character, nonetheless I think he is probably close to burnout too, thus maybe any support would be welcome?
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And he may be getting that support behind the scenes...we simply don't know.

This is the want for a show of public support to satisfy the media, that no-one gives a fudge about, not least our manager.

Besides we only see Ange twice a week. Once in the pre match presser where all appears alright with the world and secondly in the post match presser where his mood depends on the result. The more losses the worse his mood gets... probably as he runs out of explanations.
But he's always been grumpy over his tenure when we have lost and he hasn't liked what he's seen.

What I'm saying is not a lot has changed and we don't have a lot to go on to to state anything definitively.
 
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