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Liverpool thread
- Thread starter southstand1882
- Start date
WookieD
Didier Zokora
Not really. I'll give him credit for presenting the terms that Levy set and getting his signature, but Comolli likes to think that he signed Berbatov, I'm not having a jot of it. The guy made a few very good acquisitions for us, but not Berbs.
Would you not consider for a second we had indentified Berbatov before but struggled to finalise the deal whereas Comolli came in and tied it all up?
WookieD
Didier Zokora
fudging LOL! Not in a month of Sundays, no. I do not for a second think that Berbatov would not have signed had it been Arnesen or Levy on the other side of the table.
In fact, Arnesen still carries more clout in the footballing world than Comolli imo. Outside of his connections in French football, I actually think Comolli is a pretty average asset to have about a club.
I read Comolli's self congratulatory speech when he left Spurs and barely agreed with a word of it then. Watching him and KKK plunge Liverpool into the mire certainly hasn't made me change my opinion!
Baleforce
Mark Falco
i might have dreamed this, but there was talk that united tried to get him the summer before us but he had a gentleman's agreement to stay one more year, united had cooled on him a bit by then hence we we got him
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
:ross:
What nonsense. For starters, what are you even basing that on that Arnesen/Levy tried signing Berbatov before Comolli. There is a direct quote from Berbatov above saying that he started following Spurs a few months before signing for us because we bid for him in January, not before.
Secondly, even if Arnesen did "identify" him to Levy (what kind of DOF would not know about a striker that's just scored 20 in one of Europe's top leagues?), what the hell does that prove? I could identify Messi to Spurs now, does that mean if we signed him then I should get some credit? Fact is, even if Arnesen tried to sign him, the one who went out there, got the terms and conditions agreed and got Berbatov to sign for Tottenham was Comolli. Therefore, it's him that deserves the credit, as by all accounts Berba had bigger fish to fry than a team that had just finished in the top 8 for the first time in a decade.
WookieD
Didier Zokora
Because Leverkusen, up until that point had been giving him CL football and most likely he gave them an extra season, based on promises to get back in there. All pretty standard stuff... Look at us, we can keep our players for a season without CL, two bad seasons and the top players start to get restless. It isn't rocket science. Nothing to do with our "ability" to prise him away, rather Leverkusen's ability to keep him happy...
...We learnt that one to our own expense.
WookieD
Didier Zokora
Ah, so we couldn't have been watching Berbatov because Berbatov wasn't watching Spurs? :~
The point is that it has been well quoted that Levy had Berbatov as a long term target. Levy sent Comolli to get him. It is Levy's signing, not Comolli, as I said in my post. Comolli was purely following orders. If the old site hadn't blown up, you would have been able to find reems of posts, including quotes, to this effect.
Leverkusen didn't play CL during 05/06 so he could have left he season before on that premise
He was always going to move - it was only a matter when.
Simply feel Comolli should receive some credit for the deal, that is all
Kenny Dalglish, the Liverpool manager, will be required to provide a full written report to the club’s American owners at the end of the season to explain an unacceptable league slump.
As part of a wide-ranging review into what has gone wrong during an appalling Premier League run, Dalglish, director of football Damien Comolli and assistant manager Steve Clarke will be called upon to dispatch a thorough debrief across the Atlantic. They are under no illusions that the current position is considered far below the expectations of the club’s owner, Fenway Sports Group.
Each senior figure will be required to provide their insight into why a season that began with aspirations to qualify for the Champions League has rapidly deteriorated.
Most significantly, the trio will be asked to provide details of how they intend to rectify the problems that have led to the alarming dip in form in the past few months. Their proposed solutions will be just as important.
The pressure has intensified on Dalglish in recent weeks, with the team’s results since winning the Carling Cup undermining the feelgood factor the club’s first trophy in six seasons was meant to provide.
Defeat by Saudi Sportswashing Machine on Sunday was the most recent in a series of low points in the league. Liverpool have lost six of their past seven league games, during which time they have gone from top-four contenders to falling below rivals Everton.
FSG recognises the situation needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. There is no immediate threat to Dalglish’s position, but the imminent FA Cup semi-final with Everton, their league form and his response in the season review could decide whether the Anfield icon retains the trust of his board.
It is not the fact Liverpool have failed to qualify for the top four that is causing the greatest concern, but the perceived underperformance — particularly given the investment in the side last summer.
Privately, there is acknowledgement in Boston that aiming for the top four in Dalglish’s first season might have been too ambitious – there was a gulf between Liverpool and the Champions League clubs.
Liverpool’s home defeat by Arsenal a week after winning the Carling Cup was seen as the moment that top-four hopes vanished. But the disappointment was countered by consolation in knowing that the team was at least pushing hard to regain their top-four spot and were playing a better brand of football.
That optimism and tolerance has since evaporated owing to terrible results and erratic performances. The manner of the defeat against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, when the players appeared to give up the fight after going a goal behind, has been noted as much as the result itself.
FSG considers explanations such as bad luck and tiredness to be invalid.
Dalglish was appointed on a wave of popularity in Jan 2011. The club then said the decision to give him a three-year deal last May was a “no brainer” after he had transformed the form of the team and the mood at the training ground.
However, it was telling when the club’s principal owner, John W Henry, admitted that Dalglish was not FSG’s first choice. Combined with him having to wait for a permanent deal revealed concerns about giving him the job full time.
This season seemed to be going to plan following the Carling Cup win, even though there was ground to make up to the top four. Broadly speaking, there was satisfaction because the team had improved on last year.
Recent results and performances have dented that faith, but the damage is still considered reparable, especially with another trip to Wembley imminent.
FSG finds itself having to re-evaluate all aspects of the Merseyside branch of their operation. Comolli has spoken about putting in place foundations, creating a new scouting network and reviving the club’s academy, but such changes will take time before they yield results. Until then, there is no evidence that the acclaimed work behind the scenes is making any difference.
What can be judged is the impact of last summer’s signings and investment in the team, which has so far led to a worse league position. That is the most serious threat to Dalglish’s restoration plans.
For his part, Dalglish will want more investment in the squad to assist a fresh assault on the top four next season and is promising his signings will improve in their second year.
Unless he can reverse the terrible sequence of results, he will need to be at his most persuasive to convince the club’s owner that his confidence is not misplaced and he deserves more time.
Meanwhile, Liverpool do not intend to appeal against Pepe Reina’s red card against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, which means he will miss the FA Cup semi-final with Everton.
Andy Carroll is not expected to face any internal disciplinary action for reacting angrily to his substitution against his former club.
As part of a wide-ranging review into what has gone wrong during an appalling Premier League run, Dalglish, director of football Damien Comolli and assistant manager Steve Clarke will be called upon to dispatch a thorough debrief across the Atlantic. They are under no illusions that the current position is considered far below the expectations of the club’s owner, Fenway Sports Group.
Each senior figure will be required to provide their insight into why a season that began with aspirations to qualify for the Champions League has rapidly deteriorated.
Most significantly, the trio will be asked to provide details of how they intend to rectify the problems that have led to the alarming dip in form in the past few months. Their proposed solutions will be just as important.
The pressure has intensified on Dalglish in recent weeks, with the team’s results since winning the Carling Cup undermining the feelgood factor the club’s first trophy in six seasons was meant to provide.
Defeat by Saudi Sportswashing Machine on Sunday was the most recent in a series of low points in the league. Liverpool have lost six of their past seven league games, during which time they have gone from top-four contenders to falling below rivals Everton.
FSG recognises the situation needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. There is no immediate threat to Dalglish’s position, but the imminent FA Cup semi-final with Everton, their league form and his response in the season review could decide whether the Anfield icon retains the trust of his board.
It is not the fact Liverpool have failed to qualify for the top four that is causing the greatest concern, but the perceived underperformance — particularly given the investment in the side last summer.
Privately, there is acknowledgement in Boston that aiming for the top four in Dalglish’s first season might have been too ambitious – there was a gulf between Liverpool and the Champions League clubs.
Liverpool’s home defeat by Arsenal a week after winning the Carling Cup was seen as the moment that top-four hopes vanished. But the disappointment was countered by consolation in knowing that the team was at least pushing hard to regain their top-four spot and were playing a better brand of football.
That optimism and tolerance has since evaporated owing to terrible results and erratic performances. The manner of the defeat against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, when the players appeared to give up the fight after going a goal behind, has been noted as much as the result itself.
FSG considers explanations such as bad luck and tiredness to be invalid.
Dalglish was appointed on a wave of popularity in Jan 2011. The club then said the decision to give him a three-year deal last May was a “no brainer” after he had transformed the form of the team and the mood at the training ground.
However, it was telling when the club’s principal owner, John W Henry, admitted that Dalglish was not FSG’s first choice. Combined with him having to wait for a permanent deal revealed concerns about giving him the job full time.
This season seemed to be going to plan following the Carling Cup win, even though there was ground to make up to the top four. Broadly speaking, there was satisfaction because the team had improved on last year.
Recent results and performances have dented that faith, but the damage is still considered reparable, especially with another trip to Wembley imminent.
FSG finds itself having to re-evaluate all aspects of the Merseyside branch of their operation. Comolli has spoken about putting in place foundations, creating a new scouting network and reviving the club’s academy, but such changes will take time before they yield results. Until then, there is no evidence that the acclaimed work behind the scenes is making any difference.
What can be judged is the impact of last summer’s signings and investment in the team, which has so far led to a worse league position. That is the most serious threat to Dalglish’s restoration plans.
For his part, Dalglish will want more investment in the squad to assist a fresh assault on the top four next season and is promising his signings will improve in their second year.
Unless he can reverse the terrible sequence of results, he will need to be at his most persuasive to convince the club’s owner that his confidence is not misplaced and he deserves more time.
Meanwhile, Liverpool do not intend to appeal against Pepe Reina’s red card against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, which means he will miss the FA Cup semi-final with Everton.
Andy Carroll is not expected to face any internal disciplinary action for reacting angrily to his substitution against his former club.
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
He said he started following us after we bid for him...in January. The summer before we made a panic signing of Rasiak right at the end of the window. If we were in the market for another striker, and Berbatov was a long term target as you say, you'd think we'd have bid for him in the summer, no?
Of course we didn't. Because in 2005 when Arnesen left, Berbatov, a 20 league goal a season striker in a major European league at a club playing Champions League football every year, would have been a completely unrealistic target for a club of our stature. Like I said, I could identify Messi to the club today, it doesn't mean anything. If somebody was actually able to convince Messi to sign for Spurs, that would be a notable achievement. Do you really think that Comolli, or anyone involved in football scouting, didn't know who Berbatov was at the time?
Very well put. Many people played part of his singing although belittleling Comolli to the role of paper-carrier (in this particular transfer) is a tad unfair, imv
WookieD
Didier Zokora
No, not in the slightest. Do I think that we bid for every footballer we identify? No, becuase there is no point in bidding if you know that you are going to be rebuffed. In 2005 Berbatov was likely massaged into giving Leverkusen one more season (they had been CL regulars up until the season before), in much the same way we managed to push him into an extra season with us and tried our damndest to do it again but got bitten in the arse when he refussed to play.
The club had already decided on our man, we couldn't get him in 2005. We still tried but couldn't get him in January and by the summer of 06, when Leverkusen had failed again to deliver CL football, they decided to entertain offers... It is about the selling club yes? So Levy gave Comolli papers and instructions and told Comolli to get his man. If Levy had gone in his place, I believe that we would still have had Dimitar Berbatov playing football at Spurs.
Do I think that Berbatov was well scouted? Absolutely. You talk about everybody knowing about Berbatov... Of course they do. Scouting is down to identifying which of these players are a flash in the pan or serious contenders. Podolski, El Hamdouai, Sow, Remy, Suarez, Ruiz, Gameiro, Gomez, Huntelaar, Niang... It's how you look at these types of players and find the one that A) Has the talent to replicate this again and B) Has the talent to replicate this at your club. Or else you end up like Liverpool and spanking your load up the wall on a racist buck toothed gimp who barely delivers on his exorbitant transfer fee.
Berbatov was already well identified as a long term option for our strike force and it wasn't Comolli that did that.
Jurgen the German
Terry Dyson
Spot on.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
So when our chairman Levy hired Comolli to be our Director of Football, the top guy responsible for our footballing achievements, the expert on scouting and team building the first and most natural thing for Levy to do, as a guy who isn't a footballing expert, but rather a money expert was to tell Comolli who he should sign?
I will reserve my doubts. Even if Arnesen had been looking at Berbatov, and convinced Levy that he should be a target before leaving for Chelsea, something I find plausible at the very least I think Comolli would have had to agree with this decision.
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
I've still seen absolutely no evidence of this. Whereas there is evidence of us making moves within the Comolli era only.
And once again, EVEN IF Berbatov had been identified as a target, even if Levy had explicitly instructed Comolli to go and sign him, and even if Leverkusen were now actively looking to cash in on their asset, it still doesn't change the fact that Berbatov had plenty of other clubs interested in him and that prick Danchev for an agent who would have been whoring him around all of Europe, yet Comolli convinced him to choose Tottenham.
WookieD
Didier Zokora
Like I say, there were reems of information on this board before Scara's hard drive took a header with plenty of quotes.
Braineclipse... yes, in this one transfer, yes.
Arcy... I've already mentioned 05/06 (or actually said that they had already been out of CL for one season). As I say, one season is a wobble, two and you're going to lose players. Clubs like them, us, Napoli, Wolfsburg etc. can hang on to a player for a season whilst giving promises of a return. Two seasons and your goose is cooked. If we didn't hit CL this season, Bale and Modric would be gone.
I don't particularly dislike Comolli, but all of this was covered at least two years ago and the answer then, on this very board with quotes to back it up was it wasn't Comolli's signing, I don't see how anything has changed, apart from Scaramanga's crappy effort at keeping back ups
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Yep, exactly. This is pretty much the key thing. It was the same when Lennon and Huddlestone signed for us and we were told that it wasn't Arnesen signing, it was Pleat. I mean, seriously. Think about this for a moment. How comes after 6 years all he could get was the likes of Etherington and Davies and then all of sudden, after he leaves, the standard goes through the roof? The obvious point is: based on Pleat's record over 6 years, we probably would have missed out on them had he stayed. And either way, we can't know for sure and so Arnesen takes the plaudits. The same with Comolli on Berbatov, Bale, Modric, BAE, Kaboul etc.